I second what cochrane said.
Beer isn’t some sort of entitlement. You should be angry with Ohio BMV for failing to provide a durable driver’s license. It is THEIR fault you sat there beerless, not the bartender.
The whole point of the “Always ID” policies is that it doesn’t leave anything to the clerk/bartender/bouncer’s discretion, and that’s exactly their purpose. If people have to make the decision to card someone who looks 30, what about someone who looks 32? Why not just card everyone that way there’s no question, you can be sure everyone is legal, and there’s no danger to the establishment. Management can’t be everywhere, they created these policies so they don’t have to be.
As to the OP, I think asking the management is a perfectly fine course of action but their policy is pretty clear (and backed up by the law). You didn’t have valid ID for the purpose of purchasing alcohol, it sucks but it’s not the restaurant’s fault. All they other stuff is window dressing. They didn’t card everyone, but they did card you. Once it was established that you couldn’t get a beer, if it was me, I’d just order a diet Coke and continue on with the evening. And I’d call the DMV to get a better picture.
Happened to me twice. A few weeks ago, a girl tried to buy beer - I asked for ID, she presented it, and she was born in 1991. Quite a bit too young, and she looked under 21. She was clearly a part of a sting - there were cops in plain clothes inside and outside, and when they left, they thanked me.
Joe
Common sense is loooooong gone. Around here a few years back there was an interesting lawsuit. A man (of proper age) buys liquor. Gives liquor to an underage girl. She wrecks her car and gets killed. Parents sue…the store! WTF.
Now, at that store (it was a Pick N Save, basically a Walmart type store), if they think you are with other people in the line, they get carded as well and if everyone in your group isn’t of age, no sale. And to add to that, everyone who buys liquor that appears to be ‘college age’ has to sign put their signature/name/phone number/DL# in a book saying you won’t give the liquor to anyone not of drinking age. It sucks, it’s stupid (well the reasoning behind it anyways) it’s not going to stop anyone from buying liquor for others, and it’s a little insulting, in a big brother sort of way. But ya know what. You show your ID, sign the book, get your beer and move on with life.
:smack:
Around here, anymore, you never know. Still, there are plenty of people who think like that.
My favorite were the idiots who used to tell me, “It’s for my mom.”
(Am I the only one who LOVED carding kids? I’m serious here-some of the excuses were hysterical.)
My store doesn’t sell alcohol, but we do sell tobacco. Our policy is set by corporate office. Nobody, not even the store manager is allowed to overide. If (in the opinion of the clerk) somebody looks like they’re under 27 we need to see ID. The only forms of ID we accept are; PA or out-of-state driver’s licences, PA or out-of-state non-driver’s licences, US military ID, US or foreign passports, or US imigration IDs. All ID must be valid and have a photo. Expired ID is not valid therefore we cannot accept it. It’s in our handbook and anyone caught violating is automatically fired after a second offence withing a year (SMs who get more that 3 violations at their store in the same year are also fired). Fired for cause (ie no unemployment). If it’s a chain store/bar/eatery then odds are the head office sets policy and doesn’t allow lowly cashiers/waiters/bartenders to use their own judgment. Just today I had a girl try to use her high school ID and birth certificate and I didn’t even bother looking at either. For what’s it’s worth I just assume anyone who through’s a hissy fit over being asked for ID or being called on using expired IDs can’t posslibly be a mature adult. 
dnooman, the state law clearly said that they had to see a legible state-issued driver’s license or ID card. Yours wasn’t legible. Yes, the bartender should have also carded your two friends. The fact that he didn’t meant that he failed at meeting the requirements of his job then, not when he failed to sell you beer.
Your buddies lucked out and got beer. You didn’t.
Sweetheart, let it go.
I don’t understand this “jobsworth” thing. Why should anyone be expected to risk their jobs for the convenience of some stranger who walked through the door?
Yeah, I thought about that after I wrote it. I just didn’t think anyone would call me on it. I should have expected nothing less from a doper. :smack:
The appropriate use of the term “jobsworth” is to refer to a petty beurocrat or someone who follows the minutia of corporate policy, usually spitefully, even when it is not in anyones best interest. In other words, it means someone who is focused more on the process than the results.
To me the sticking point is that his two friends, of the same age and standing right there next to him in a group, were not carded. If they’re afraid of a sting, what happened to those two guys? Since you three were all together, shouldn’t they at least have belatedly checked their IDs?
If it were me, I would weigh my choices. If this particular restaurant/bar was a place I really wanted to be at for a specific reason, I would just ask one of my non-carded buddies to buy me the beer. In full view of the bartender.
Otherwise, I and my friends would leave and go somewhere else, and spread this story around, which is exactly what you did.
As for the “unusable picture” on your DL – I would still agree that should be fixed for other reasons (i.e., you wouldn’t want a cop to raise the same issue in a more serious context).
So when the petty B. says (or is imputed to say), “It’s not my jobsworth,” it is assumed he’s lying that to fail to follow the policy would be risking his job?
Yeah, the assumption is that he could probably bend the rules or carry out a task with minimal risk to his job, but refuses either out of misplaced zeal or a peverse delight in seeing people suffer.
Would you be able to use that ID on any airline on the US?
At a bank?
If not then I don’t see how the bartender was wrong.
I think it’s possible that his friends looked substantially older to the bartender, which means he was doing his job of checking the IDs of those whose age was in question to him (whether the OP agrees with his perception or not).
That’s a good way to get the whole group kicked out of the bar in a hurry.
If I were the bartender and caught that happening, then I would REALLY assume you are underage. If you didn’t leave, and you were drinking the beer that your friend bought for you, I’d call the cops and have you removed. My job is worth more then you getting a beer, especially if your going to act like that. Oh, and don’t forget the fines if I get caught serving a minor.
40 and I often stick my ID (credit cards, whatever) in yesterday’s pants pockets and forget to transfer them. I’ve been refused service for lack of ID on several occations - sitting there with my husband and elementary aged children. On other occations (probably the majority of them) they let it slide.
I flatter myself that it means I look young. However, there is no way in hell I look younger than - if I really flatter myself - 26.
Yes, but she didn’t offer ID that said she was over 21, did she? She didn’t argue or demand to see your manager?
Avtually, yeah they pretty much do. If the bartender/clerk demands ID and checks the birthdate, they’re ok. The cops aren’t going to push the envelope.
It would be entrapment because they would be inducing the server to commit a crime that they already clearly indicated they were not inclined to commit. That’s entrapment.
What is annoying is that the bartender showed high vigilence and stuck to the letter of the law with th OP, but was very nonchalant with his friends. So I can see how annoying that would be. I’ve always thought that if I owned a bar or restaurant I would establish a card everybody policy.
I hold a NM server’s license…no big thing, just a one day class and a quiz, but I really see where the establishment was coming from.
Once the decision has been made NOT to serve based on a judgment call, it should never be reversed. The OP is such a case (server judged photo too poor to ID customer). The only reason to change such a decision is if hard facts change.
Examples:
Joe forgot his ID, is refused. Joe goes home and comes back with his ID…so he can now be served.
Gunther presents his German passport, indicating he was born on July 6th. As this is June 7th, Gunther is only 20 for another month, so can’t be served. Ohhhh, but wait…07/06/19XX on a GERMAN passport actually IS June 7th, so happy birthday Gunther, and the first drink is on the house! (I actually saw this happen when I took a german intern out for his 21st birthday)
So I have to support the manager for supporting the judgement of his barkeep. HOWEVER, If I had been in his place and were pretty sure the customer WAS actually of age, I would have refused to serve him alchohol, but comp’d him a non-alchoholic beverage of his choice, and possibly a dessert. I get to play it safe, and hopefully keep a customer or three.