I read the exchange, yes…it was over several posts, and I honestly thought Tom did a good job of defending his own position. -XT.
He has not responded to my cross examination unless I missed it.
I have twice mentioned my intent involved irony - and no one has included that aspect of my point.
So, the OP was a ‘false flag’, where you were chumming the waters in the hopes of catching a loony right winger so you could point out the irony to him or her, and instead you caught…Tom?
BOOM! Damn, there goes another SDMB Industrial Irony meter down the drain. I need to get the lead lined nuclear rated irony meter next time…
The IRS has admitted to wrong-doing, so this is a scandal. We can debate the size of the scandal, but when the party being attacked admits wrong-doing, then there isn’t much of debate about whether wrong-doing was done.
But like I said, I don’t blame you for not defending your OP. It’s indefensible.
So admitting a mistake is justification for scandal mongering and outright lying about what went wrong by rightwinger’s from the lowest minion to a US Senator and all the right’s media pundits.
GOP Appropriations Committee Chairman Hal Rogers on Fox said, “the enemies list out of the White House that IRS was engaged in shutting down or trying to shut down the conservative political viewpoint across the country – an enemies list that rivals that of another president some time ago.”
This RW butthead did not ask if an enemies list that was authored by the White House exists. He said it existed. Now that is a CT.
It is not a thesis or theory - it is a question.
It Being a question makes me having Glenn Beck as a mentor.
That is proof that I am a witch,
There is no way to prove I am not s witch unless I be dunked under water and actually drown.
I have answered questions about my OP.
Including responding to those asking for evidence.
I get no follow up to those answers. No challenges.
Just back to the CT charge.
Comparing me to Beck seems to be where many wish to end it.
I am happy to defend against that attack which is a defense of my OP.
Where did I say that?
But here’s another hint: If you don’t want to discuss a crazy CT, then don’t post an OP that consists of a crazy CT. No charge for that advice, amigo. Es gratis.
What does that mean?
Admitting a mistake does not make that something a scandal. Scandal mongering makes a mistake and non-scandal into a scandal.
I smell “false flag” all over the OP’s OP…a surreptitious campaign to demonize the Right, aimed at making Obama a permanent Dictator, suspending habeas corpus and imprisoning conservative talk-show hosts at Gitmo.
You can’t prove me wrong.
You did not ask a question. You smell something.
I have no idea if your sense of smell is capable of determining what you are claiming whether satire or not.
So you are right I can’t prove you wrong. Nor do I need to.
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a disgraceful or discreditable action, circumstance, etc.
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an offense caused by a fault or misdeed.
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damage to reputation; public disgrace.
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defamatory talk; malicious gossip.
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a person whose conduct brings disgrace or offense.
Yep, this is a scandal. As John Mace already pointed out, the scope of the scandal can be debated, such as whether Obama was personally involved (which I highly doubt, unless evidence emerges).
But this ‘mistake’ was a scandal.
Since you cannot prove me wrong, my contention stands.
The logic is unassailable.
Once you’ve determined that all mistakes are scandals you are justifying the loathsome behavior of scandal mongerers and justify that behavior.
Take Bill O’Reilly for instance. He lied on air last when he stated as fact that the IRS Commissioner visited the White House 151 times over three years, thus making it highly suspicious that Obama had to be involved in causing the Tea Party groups to be targeted.
The true number was 11 times. Apparently the Commisioner was on a list where he was cleared to attend White House meetings 151 times.
That is a mistake on O’Reilly’s part - so according to you it is also a scandal.
The record of the visits was made known but O’Reilly kept the scandal mongering going on subsequent shows. At that point he became a liar,
He should be called upon to resign for bringing disgrace to to Fox News.
But he won’t. Because no one labels O’Reilly’s mistake/lie a scandal.
You make a weak case that all mistakes are scandals.
The IRS employees that made a misrake are not public officials. There is no case or evidence that their bosses made the mistake.
Obama did not make a mistake. Why is scandal attached to him without one lick of evidence that the ‘mistake’ was his?
So is it only if a Government employee makes a mistake it has to be a scandal?
What are you defining?
Never said that, but even if I did, it doesn’t follow that no mistakes are ever scandals. Imagine a B-52 bomber flight misplacing some nuclear weapons through an honest mistake of filing paperwork. Mistake? Yes. Scandal? Yes.
It’s not “all mistakes”, that’s a strawman. Read the definiton again.
Was O’Reilly’s remark…
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a disgraceful or discreditable action, circumstance, etc? Not really, since O’Reilly has no credit to begin with.
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an offense caused by a fault or misdeed? Eh, maybe.
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damage to reputation; public disgrace? Nope, O’Reilly reputation is already tarnished, and he’s suffered no public disgrace over this.
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defamatory talk; malicious gossip? Nope, though you could call O’Reilly scandalous if you were so inclined, but that’s hardly malicious gossip.
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a person whose conduct brings disgrace or offense? No more so than usual.
Or because it’s par for the course for O’Reilly and Fox News. It’s not a scandal when Charlie Sheen is touring the country with porn stars, but it’d be a scandal if the Pope were.
This sort of false reporting could bring down a serious, hard-news journalist, though it’d be unlikely in this case (cleared for meeting vs. attended meeting, etc). It won’t touch a muckraker like O’Reilly. The price O’Reilly pays is having no credibility.
Again, never said that.
Because Republican politicians want to get elected, and Republicans want Republicans politicians elected. One way to do that is throwing dirt on the opposing party, and making mountains out of molehills. If the number of people who vote Republican in the next election because of this scandal exceeds the number who vote Democrat due to disgust at Republican efforts to link this to Obama, then it’s all worthwhile for them, isn’t it?
Your binary approach here is telling: either this IRS scandal is personally linked to Obama, or it’s just an honest mistake that we should think nothing of. Thing is, though, even if this thing never reached the White House, it’s still disturbing, it should be investigated, and the responsible parties identified and dismissed. That’s what’s happening, so kudos to Obama for that. No Saturday Night Massacre here.
What? No. It doesn’t have to be a government employee, and government employees make mistakes all the time that aren’t scandals.
The word “scandal”.
Stands where?
Also, in case it wasn’t clear from the previous post: what the IRS was up to is a scandal whether or not Obama had anything to do with it.
What? No. It doesn’t have to be a government employee, and government employees make mistakes all the time that aren’t scandals. -human Action.
So if I don’t see the IRS employee’s mistake as a scandal why did you tell me that “Yep, this is a scandal”.
It is a trumped up scandal by people like O’Reilly who are lying about the mistake.
If all government employees mistakes are not scandals then there is no reason this event is a scandal, unless people like you and Mace decide that it is. You have decided it is and I don’t get what your criteria for that decision is.
Could you expand in that?
Because I don’t modify my opinions or reading of facts based on what you believe. Whether you see this as a scandal or not is wholly disconnected from whether I do.
The IRS seem to disagree, as they have apologized for their conduct.
Obama seems to disagree as well, as he called the conduct “inexcusable” and vowed to put safeguards in place to prevent it from happening again.
Just because some are trying to exaggerate the scandal for political purposes, doesn’t mean that this isn’t a scandal or that nothing wrong was done.
So if the DMV clerk misspelling my name on my driver’s license isn’t a scandal, then this isn’t either? It’s all-or-nothing?
In addition to myself and John Mace, the IRS and Obama consider this a scandal. Do you discount their judgement as well?
It was inappropriate conduct, counter to IRS regulations and possibly counter to law. More broadly, though, it’s suggestive of something Americans find unacceptable: the government using its powers to hinder or harass political opponents, whether as defined groups or as a class. That idea is chilling, and a full and open investigation is certainly warrented to ascertain exactly what went on.
Yep, it’s officially a scandal.
I’d say that whenever a government agency is under criminal investigation by the US AG, you got yourself a honest-to-goodness scandal.
And it wasn’t Bill O’Reilly who said:
It was:
We had 2 resignations so far:
And the American people think it’s a scandal:
Sorry, NFBW, but once again you’ve been fooled by your own political biases.