He was stripped of his Godliness, became a man, was tortured and killed for my sins.
you’re right, that isn’t love. he was probably bored that day, and wanted to give us a big mindfuck instead.
I’m telling you exactly what Jesus said and his intentions, you guys are contradicting yourself and just flipping what I’m saying and throwing it back in my face with a stupid question.
How do you know all this? How can anyone know this? Especially since you mention that we can’t fathom him or his actions.
This is no answer, and God is the one making the demand. If God wants my love so bad, he’s going to have to show me first that he exists, and show me secondly that he deserves it.
So there’s no reason he can’t change it then.
I thought he only had one dozen disciples.
There is no evidence that any of them were martyred for their beliefs, nor is there any evidnece that they claimed he’d been crucified.
There are no eyewitness accounts of Jesus at all, nor is there a single eyewitness claim that he was physically resurrected – not that it would be meaningful even if there were.
Why couldn’t he just let us in without a sacrifice?
Dude, seriously, do you know anything about Christianity? I’m telling you what Jesus told us 2000 years ago.
The things that we don’t have answers to is when I say, humanity can’t answer it because God’s knowledge is superior to ours.
How do you know he was stripped of his Godliness? How do you know that Jesus wasn’t some guy saying he was God and stripped of his Godliness?
Just because a wife-beater sometimes does things for his wife that appear to be love, doesn’t mean that she should forget the big picture, which involves him beating her senseless every night. The big picture in this case is that God chose to create the Universe, knowing what would become of it.
Yeah. You guys need to read up on Jesus Christ first. The things you guys are asking me is basic stuff. Continue this when you’ve done some research.
Trying to convince you guys with your knowledge is like trying to start a car without gas. Not gonna happen. good night.
EDIT: google the word ‘faith’.
Sure…will do…
:rolleyes:
Some guy said some things 2000 years ago, you believe him (for some reason), and when called to explain some inconsistencies that derive from the things he said you wave it away with “it’s unfathomable” and “you guys don’t know enough about Jesus”
Because all the evidence is against there being one, and because belief in God has cause immense harm to the world, and continues to do so.
No, he was ( supposedly ) tortured and killed by the Romans for reasons that had nothing to do with you. And there’s no evidence that he was anything other than one more rabble rousing preacher in a place and time that was rife with them.
Faith is the denial of reality in the favor of fantasy.
No, some guy allegedly said some stuff 2000 years ago. Over the next century after his death, other people, who weren’t even there, wrote this stuff down. Then over the next couple of centuries yet more people edited and changed these writings. But it’s all right there. The pure and honest Truth!
You just don’t know enough about Jesus Christ. If you did some research, you’d realize your error. Everything he claimed was true, and anything that may seem amiss is unfathomable, so we shouldn’t question it.
IN your discription God is not a good father. God is said to be love, and doesn’t need any more of anything. A good father loves his children unconditionally, he would not ask them to beg for their daily bread, he would not expect them to serve him, knowing what they need he would give it to them, and knowing what would harm them he would not give anything that would cause them harm , nor let a monster kill them. KNowing they were flawed I wouldn’t punish them for what I was responsibile for.
I am just a unknowing human parent, but I feel I must teach my children what is harmful to them and what is not and not rely on another possibily flawed human to raise them. They would not have to just believe I existed but I would make sure that they know me, and not just pick out certain children to give a gift of faith.I feel it is more important that my children know I love them and if they could not love me, I would not expect them to if some how they didn’t feel I loved them.
That isn’t quite true. According to Matthew chapter 16, Jesus is quoted as saying He would return with His angels in all His glory while some of the people standing there would still be alive. They never lived to see it,unless there are some 2,000 year old people living among us.
He is also quoted as saying one cannot get bad fruit from a good tree or good fruit from a bad tree, and being some one who has fruit trees I can tell you that is not the case, I have good trees with bad fruit and had one bad tree with a perfect apple. It is a matter of spraying for bugs. The mustard seed is not the smallest seed and many other picky things if one wanted to use them as examples.
Would you mind having him CC me a copy of his response to you? Thanks in advance.
My knowledge of mathematics is vastly superior to that of a child. Yet, it’s not true to say that when they argue that 1 and 1 make 2 their argument is wrong.
They may not have the elegant solution for it, but they can demonstrate their case to at least make it more than plausible that they’re right.
Or, since my knowledge of mathematics is vastly superior to theirs and I write out a solution, a proof if you please, that 1 and 1 do make 2 that I’m somehow a god? If this can be done with honesty, do let me know as I’d love to have my students refer to me as a god. That way when there’s a seeming grading discrepancy, I can merely respond, “God did it. Who are you to question me?”
This, of course, is satire.
Let’s assume that god exists and is all-knowing. (Sorry. but this hypothetical is going to go straight up my ass, I’m sure). And we’ll go ahead and admit the obvious: man doesn’t know everything. And let’s throw in for good measure that he created the universe and everything in it works according to his plan (or his rules).
Ok. So, in the quest to know this god, I’d submit, looking at how things work and deducing from it how he’s put things into being would be a good move. Of course, the more and more we look at how things appear to work, the less and less need there is for a god to be in control of it. Of course, it will do in any situation to just say “God did it.” After all, any decent god worth killing for would obviously be able to do anything he wants.
And that’s the problem with a god. He can be made into anything you want him to be. I think that’s sign of a weak god since he’s so malleable, when it suits your purposes.
Consider, some small child, a hapless lad we’ll say, has some misfortune come into his life which requires surgery by a team of very well-trained surgeons. The boy lives. Glory be to god; his hand was on that child and thus the child lived. The surgical team had nothing to do with it because “god was working” through them.
Consider the same story but the boy dies. Suddenly god wasn’t involved in that. Just the surgeons weren’t good enough. Pity, if only god had bothered to put his hand on that child. If it’s the case that god is responsible for all the good in the world, so too must it be the case that he’s responsible for all the bad. Even if he isn’t directly responsible, say, he doesn’t actually make people go out and rape and murder, he’s at least indirectly responsible merely because he has the power to prevent it but intentionally chooses to allow people to be raped and murdered.
I’m not a god (don’t tell my kids or students though!), but if something bad is happening to someone near me, even if stopping it is beyond my ability, I’m sure as hell going to try. That doesn’t make me godly; it makes me compassionate. Compassion doesn’t seem to be a trait your god has. Nor is morality much of a concern of his. Is it moral to have the power to stop the suffering a child and choose not to?
Well, in the surgery situation given above, we mere humans, we vile creatures, would punish a doctor for choosing not to try to save that child’s life because he deemed the life unworthy of the effort. Indeed, such a person wouldn’t be a doctor anymore. So, I guess you’re right. I can’t understand what kind of depravity it would take to watch a child die and not try to do something to save it. Of course, god, like yoda, wouldn’t need to try because when you’re that powerful, there is no try. Do, or do not. In most cases, given the number of people who’ve died in the world (an entire population minus a few if one believes your myths, he killed everyone sua sponte), he does not.
So, it might be true that your god exists* and is all you claim. Indeed, if he is all that you claim, he’s beneath contempt and surely not worth my respect. Let alone my reverence.
*One would think that it wouldn’t be too much to ask of a god for, oh, I don’t know, at least one piece of evidence that he exists. To date, none has been offered by anyone, anywhere. Protip: assertion isn’t evidence. The bible isn’t a source of authority on matters of fact because, simply, it is so utterly infected with counterfactual claims that it’s very difficult to find any confidence in any of its assertions. I have a nagging habit in my life: when a story is internally inconsistent, full of factual errors, I look at it as both a.) fiction, and b.) bad writing.
This surely describes your bible, which is the only cite people have for the claims of your god’s existence. If this is the grounds upon which one’s argument is based, one needs to do much better.
On what basis can we judge whether god is good and worth worshipping/loving?
Well, since he didn’t imbue with me the power of Miss Cleo, I am left with nothing but his purported actions, or inactions. I know if we described a person who exhibited all of these traits, we wouldn’t generally think of them as a good person.
Let’s see, a person who demands respect, spreading his word throughout the world, condemns to death millions of people (by fire! what is it about fire anyway?) and requires uncritical assent to his preaching . . . I think we’ve had a few like this in the past.
But I won’t name names so as to disprove a certain law about internet conversations.
Very true - however the standard apologist response would be that god is above our morality or morality stems from god or something to that handwaving effect. I’ve heard the worst rationalizations when I’ve posted the Joshua Challenge.
This pushes the question back further, and the question becomes “On what basis can we judge whether god is good and worth worshipping/loving?”
Yeah. I wish I could start a business with this kind of rationale. We give good customer service (as we define it). Of course, I’d define good customer service as whatever service any patron actually got at the moment. I doubt my business would last that long.
But aren’t we supposed to work to be like god, even knowing we’ll always fall short? Christians don’t really believe that. The defense that “gold told me to do it” doesn’t seem to work all that great.
I wouldn’t say his morality is above mine. I would say his morality is dated, oddly enough to the same kind of morality present during the crusades. It’s curious how a book written hundreds of years after the man died can somehow be considered contemporaneously written with his death and life.
I base it on what’s written in the book claiming to speak on his behalf. I know of no other way to base a religion’s deity on than the tenets he supposedly has delineated. If there is an error in my view, then surely god will see that he needs better speech writers. The fault isn’t mine; it’s the dipshits who wrote the lies in the first place.
As was already said, we can judge god based on his “word”, his actions as recorded through history. Another way to judge it is through its followers. Many of the worst people I have ever met have been very religious. I’m not talking about murderers or rapists. I’m talking about hypocrites and “holier than thou” types who preach one thing and do the opposite. People who preach family values while screwing the secretary, and the like.
And lets not forget the powerful church organizations, such as the Catholic church, that are so corrupt and evil that I hope there is a hell so they can go there when they finally kick the bucket.
So, while I am not perfect by any means, I will say my values and morals are far superior to the entity referred to as god.
The simple answer to the OP is that if you invest meaning in it then it’s a meaningful act for you. It has no meaning at all for an atheist, a Buddhist, Hindu, Jew, etc, just as the divine rites of the latter three religions would have no meaning for Christians. (I leave aside the woolly beliefs of those ‘Christians’ who insist we all worship the same god, calmly tossing away the whole foundation of Christian belief, that there is no salvation without Christ. Such people, in believing all, believe nothing.)
As an atheist myself the crucifixion of a reformist Jewish rabbi who fell foul somehow of the Roman authorities has no meaning other than its historical significance as the foundation of one of the world’s major religions. And even in that respect it’s Paul that interests me more, the real founder and architect of the Christian religion, without whom there would be nothing but an obscure Jewish sect, either long forgotten or restricted to a tiny area of the Middle East, like the modern Mandaeans, the followers of John the Baptist.