My uncle, who is the most racists, bigoted democrat I’ve ever known, absolutely insists that Martin Luther King was a “card carrying” Communist, and plagerized his doctorit thesis.
A search of the web comes up with sites also claiming this, but 100% of them are sponsered by right wing, racists groups.
So what is the Straight Dope on MLK?
The full article can be found here
The full article can be found here
There IS some evidence that Dr. King plagiarized large parts of his doctoral dissertation. But while I make no excuses for that, and certainly think his plagiarism should be included in any biography of Dr. King, I also think it’s ludicrous to try to tarnish his legacy or taint his accomplishments by alluding to that offense.
As for being a Communist… Dr. King was never a member of the Communist Party. He certainly wan’t a laissez-faire Redpublican like myself! As time went by, his ideas on many subjects became more radical, and he’d undoubtedly qualify as a socialist, if he were alive today. But no, he was never a card-carrying Red.
The Reds were interested in his movement, though, and actively tried to infiltrate it.
What difference would it make if he was?
I think you misspelled “Republican” there, Hayduke.
(“Racist Democrat”? Is that anything like “Jews for Jesus”?)
rjung-you are aware that the Democratic party of the past was today’s Republican party? Strom Thurmond started out as a staunch Democrat.
Besides, the insinuation that being a Democrat precludes one from being racist is false.
Thanks, Guin. You beat me to it.
I’m surprised at you, rjung.
tsk tsk
Citation? (Preferably not from Hoover’s Fairy Tales?)
“The reds” hardly existed in this country. The U.S. Communist Party became a joke in 1941 and never recovered. There were occasional attempts by the KGB (note: as agents of the country the U.S.S.R., not as “reds”) who attempted to make poltical capital by associations with various groups known to be formally opposed by the scare-mongers in Washington. However, since the very mention of “communism” was enough to set off endless witchhunts against all sorts of good American protestors, groups as disparate as the SCLC and the UAW made it a point to refuse associations with anyone whose agenda “sounded communist.”
The fact that Hoover was able to maintain his little kingdom for over 30 years by waving the word “communist” around did not actually mean that they were ever a threat to this country.
“The FBI and Martin Luther King”, by David J. Garrow. Atlantic Monthly, July/August 2002.
This article is not pro-FBI, but shows that there was an effort by the CPUSA to place members at high levels in the King organization.
Yes, the US Communist Party became a joke, but I would ask you tomndebb for a cite on the activities of those who were secretly Communists or those who were working for the benefit of the Communists. Don’t forget that many atomic secrets were stolen well after 1941.
I personally participated in an anti-poverty, anti-racism demonstration that was organized and led by a clandestine Communist (folk singer, Pete Seeger) in 1957. I had no idea that Pete Seeger was a Communist until he admitted it publicly decades later.
My memory is quite clear that Communists did indeed oppose America’s racism for moral reasons, but they also used opposition to racism as a way to attack America and promote Communism.
This is not to say that King had any affiliation with Communism. I have no reason to believe that he did.
Well he had a nice message that we should be equal under the law and that we should judge people by the content of their character. If his idea of being equal under the law was living under a communist regime that would certainly make a difference to me.
Marc
Mr. Moto, I fail to understand the relevance at all. The Reds also tried (and succeeded) at infiltrating CIA (Ames), the FBI (Hannsen), the Navy (Walker), etc. In your mind, does such infiltration make those organizations Commies, communist fronts, or otherwise less worthy?
Sua
Yeah, Pete Seeger sent lots of nuclear secrets and military intelligence to Russia.
Of course he kept quiet about being a communist. He wanted to be able to keep making a living. It was not as though he was pretending to be a member of the D.A.R. or the John Birch Society; his music was always in the protest mode, pointing out disparities and inequities in U.S. society. It was just exactly the sort of “Oh! He was a communist!” reaction that you have demonstrated that forced him to keep quiet about it. Had he been allowed to mention his philosophy, I doubt that you could find any serious changes to the lyrics of his songs. He only hid his politics to avoid having his music shut off by simple-minded “patriots” in the recording studios.
Yeah, there were a few people recruited by the Russians to engage in espionage who were first approached because of their involvement in the Communist Party in the 1930s. There were a whole lot more who have been approached because they were good capitalists who put selling secrets at a higher premium than patriotism.
The continued equation of “Philosophical Communist” = “Agent of Russia” is exactly the sort of simple-minded idiocy that allowed black lists and loyalty oaths to crush so many lives (and allowed the FBI and a whole lot of state police forces to set up agencies whose purpose was the illegal spying on citizens–none of which actually prevented any genuine espionage). (Gee, no wonder you’re so fond of Ashcroft, he’s re-creating the 1950s for you again.)
That’s funny. Gus Hall was a very patriotic American. He wanted a different America than you do, but then, so do any number of people–Libertarians, “Adam Smith” wannabes, Christian Fundamentalists. Only “Communists” get branded with trying to “destroy” the country. What claptrap!
He would have, if he could have. He was an honest-to-goodness card-carrying Communist. This means he took orders ultimately from Joseph Stalin. His folk songs were wonderful. But, his political activities were done under orders from the Communist Party, for the good of the Communist Party.
Not his philosophy, his affiliation.
The Communists wanted to take over the world. They said so. They overthrew governments by military means and with the help of secret supporters in various countries. They would have done the same in the US if they could have. They killed somewhere around 100 million people. They were evil and dangerous.
Incidentally, tomndebb, your implication that liberals are more like Communists than DAR or John Birch Society is a meaner insult toward liberals than anything I have ever posted on the board. Liberals are nothing like Communists. Most leading liberals in the 1950’s actively opposed Communism, including people like Hubert Humphrey, union leaders David Dubinsky, Walter Reuther, etc.
I agree that his song lyrics did not openly support Communism. I don’t think the “patriots” were any more simple-minded than were the patriots during WWII, who would not have promoted recordings by an American member of the German Nazi Party.
Of course, this doesn’t apply to Seeger, who was more than “philosophical”. Passing on, your statement contains a number of unproved assertions. Do you have evidence for them and for the assertions in your provious post?
The 1950’s were created by Joseph Stalin. The Cold War was real. The naughty oughties (or whatever we call this decade) has been created by Osama bin Laden and other fanatical hate-mongers.
You’d have to prove to me that Gus Hall was very patriotic. How in the world can a genuine supporter of civil liberties like yourself say nice things about someone who wanted to impose on America a system bereft of civil liberties.
BTW plenty of groups other than Communists have gotten branded: neo-Nazis, racists, Organized Crime, 5and Christian Right to name four. All dangerous groups, but none ever had the power and menace of world-wide Communism.
There is, and always was, more to communism than the Soviet Union. Communism is a philosophy/prophesy, not a specifc organization that does or has ever existed on Earth. It’s kind of like you can be Libertarian, but that doesn’t mean you were getting direct orders from Ayn Rand. Communists can be perfectly patriotic- they belive in America and they believe that Communism is right for America.
Communism, so goes the theory, would render racism completely obsolete- indeed, incomprehensable. There would be equality on all levels, not just enough tokens thrown out that people stop disrupting things. It’s a pretty appealing concept for anyone intrested in civil rights.
**
Yeah, especially since Rand really hated Libertarians and wanted nothing to do with them.
**
I don’t think Communism and American values are compatible. Sure, most of us can agree that things like racism is bad but when it comes to getting things done there’s little agreement.
I can see how it is appealing. Like many fantasies it sounds great until you try to think of a way to make it work in reality. I’m very interested in civil rights and I think Communism would remove many of them.
Marc
Dubinsky and Reuther weren’t liberals…they were socialists.
Arrant nonsense. He “took orders” from Josph Stalin? (Ultimately or in any other way?) You have posted stuff that suggested that you believed that silliness, previously, but it is interesting to see you actually post such completely ludicrous assertions.
The notion that there was some large, unified Communist Menace that was intent of taking over the world as late as the 1950s is a creation of the fevered minds of the ultra-right. Certainly, the Communist movement of the 1920s and 1930s hoped to be a world revolution that would bring peace and prosperity to the workers throughout the world. However, that goal drowned in the blood spilled by Stalin and was ground into oblivion in the horrors of World War II. Following WWII, the U.S.S.R. imposed its rule on Eastern Europe using the existing Communist Parties as its puppets (who better?). However, outside Eastern Europe, the communist groups were more likely to be driven by nationalism than World Communism. They turned to the U.S.S.R. for help because the U.S., Britain, and France were disinclined to break up the old colonial empires. The Soviets were the only ones willing to take on the old empires–and they did that out of a desire for national power, not to advance “Communism.” In places such as Italy, France, and Greece, the Communist parties never made any attempt to overthrow the governments. They sought to win at the ballot box. The only places where “communists” attempted to overthrow governments were in those places where the U.S.S.R. needed a client state or wished to oppose the U.S. There have been a few “independent” Communist revolutions: Cambodia might have been one–or it might have been an attempt by China to weaken Vietnam. Peru’s Shining Path appears to be an attempt at an actual Communist Revolution, yet in 30 years, it has never received any substantial support from China or the U.S.S.R. much less any world-wide Communist Conspiracy. Other “communist” revolutions have been opportunistic efforts by locals, looking to the U.S.S.R. for support where the U.S. refused to give it–Vietnam being the most striking example.
It is true that the Communist Party USA was funded from Moscow. This was a clear case, however, of its utter ineffectiveness. No spies or sabotage have ever been linked to the CPUSA. No CPUSA officer or member was convicted (or charged) with conspiring to overthrow the government–they were charged with “teaching” “bad things.” Just as the CPUSA lost 80% of its membership between 1932 and 1936 and an additional 80% of the surviving membership with the outbreak of WWII, it has been noted throughout its history that its membership never “took orders” from any outside source. They were Americans with a political/economic belief and Gus Hall’s myopic following of the Stalinist party line could not lead them to abandon U.S. ideals. (It tended, actually, to decrease membership–as in the case of Mr. Seeger.) They thought (as their numbers dwindled throughout the years) that they were going to be at the vanguard of some great revolution, but they were never engaged in any unpatriotic acts against the U.S. Hall spent time in prison, charged with being a “bad person,” but the government never found any evidence that he had ever tried to betray the country. His conviction was later reversed by the Supreme Court as having been brought about by bad law. (During WWII, Hall was active in preventing strikes against the war effort. He is actually mildly despised by the “true revolutionaires” because he was such an obvious voice for the Moscow party line while failing to actually do anything.)
(It is interesting that you were unaware, in 1957, that Seeger was a communist: he had been “outed” in 1952 and had actually testified before the unAmerican House Committee in 1955, never denying his party membership, but refusing to “name associates.” By 1957, when you were attending his concert, it appears that he had already withdrawn from the CPUSA in the light of the revelations regarding Stalin.)
There never was a Red Menace. There was a period from around 1880 through 1940 when a number of different groups believed that the capitalist society as it existed needed to be overthrown for the good of the people. There was a period from 1945 through 1990 where different groups, at different times, felt that in their country a socialist economy supported by the Soviets was the best way to overthrow various authoritarian, anti-democratic regimes. Some of them succeeded, only to discover that the Soviet money and arms came at the price of autonomy.
Believing in the Red Menace (or that Pete Seeger would have happily overthrown his country at a call from Moscow) is a truly astounding misunderstanding of history.