Start it out “well, I would like to talk about the man whose birth we celebrate on Dec. 25…”, list all the attributes, and then “Yes, I’m talking about Mithra, who predated Christ by 200 years. Of course, just because every other religion seems to get its stories and beliefs from a magpie-like borrowing from other religions with some local color and imagination thrown in, doesn’t mean Christianity did. Nope, all those stories are 100% literally true, it’s just an amazing coincidence.”
I believe the party line is that other religions have similar stories because God was giving out hints of what was to come. I think Vrishna and Quexalcote were even crucified between two thieves. Around the time of Mithraism, though, Christians said the similarities were from the devil, to confuse people and mock God.
As I’ve mentioned before, I do my posting at the Library. I looked through their catalog and found this book listed: Mithras, the Secret God, by Maarten Jozef Vermaseren.
Can any of you recommend it?
I’d also like to ask a favor of one of you> if you click on this link, http://catalog.lapl.org/ you should be able to access the LAPL Catalog. Searching under “Mithraism” gives ten titles. Can any of you recommend any of them?
I’m only vaguely familiar with Zoroastrianism (That’s based on the guy who made the “Z” with his sword, right? :)), and I’d like to know a bit more.
A search on Yahoo gives a lot of links, but more than I can read here and I can’t take any of it home, so a book would be best.
I can’t recommend a book, since my knowledge of Mithraism was gleaned from various diverse sources, not from any books specifically focussed on Mitraism. However, if you find a good book, jab, let me know what the title was and I’ll track it down and read it myself.
I’ve read the book by David Ulansey, “The Origins of the Mithraic Mysteries: Cosmology and Salvation in the Ancient world”.
It was awhile ago, but IIRC it seemed pretty good.
Ulansey, unlike many earlier scholars, believed Mithraism had little to do with Zoroastrianism. He maintained it was a mystery religion developed in Asia Minor by Hellenistic Greek settlers. They just borrowed the name of a Persian god to add a touch of the exotic. Again IIRC, Ulansey indicated its origin, or at least an early center, was in the province of Cilicia, on the southern coast of what is now Turkey.
I found that a little intriguing since Cilicia was the home province of Saul/Paul of Tarsus. Might that explain some of the parallels between Pauline theology and Mithraic theology?
That’s one of the theories I’ve heard. “Tarsus, the home of St. Paul, was one of the great centres of his worship, being the chief city of the Cilicians; and, as will presently appear, there is a decided tinge of Mithraism in the Epistles and Gospels. Thus the designations of our Lord as the Dayspring from on High [Luke, i. 78.], the Light [2 Cor. iv. 6; Eph. v. 13, 14; I. Thess. v. 5; etc.], the Sun of Righteousness [Malachi iv. 2; and much used
in Christianity.], and similar expressions, are borrowed from or related to Mithraic phraseology.”
–commentry from “The Paganism in Our Christianity” by Arthur Weigall
“…Mithras the Sun-God
Was a jolly happy soul,
And he slew a bull
On solstice day
So the world would not get cold…” Happy Mithrasmas, all!
Okay, since the thread has veered slightly, let me ask y’all if you can confirm Isaac Asimov’s statement (I cannot currently find my cite) that ‘Lucifer’ (aka The Morning Star) was a title given a King of a competing people (the Babylonians, I believe?), the inference being that Lucifer was a historical person (or lineage of people) and NEVER had any connection to (the mythical figure) ‘Satan’ until modern Christians got it all screwed up.
Certainly my brief reading of a passage including Lucifer could be read that way, but I’m no Biblical scholar.
I always thought it was related to the Prometheus myths; Prometheus brought light (fire) to man and Lucifer was the “lightbringer”. Both got punished for giving man things that were supposed to belong to the gods alone, and brought the gods’ wrath upon man.
Also, I don’t believe “Lucifer” was ever mentioned in the Old Testament, although Satan was in the Book of Job. Surely the identity of Satan as a “Fallen Lucifer” wasn’t invented until the New Testament came out.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Only appearance of the name I can find with my on-line concordance. AND, its in the Old Testament.
Most all of demonology is extra-Biblical.
Dr. Fidelius, Charlatan
Associate Curator Anomalous Paleontology, Miskatonic University
“You cannot reason a man out of a position he did not reach through reason.”
Sounds like political commentary to me. The Big Nation on the Corner goes through some hard times, which economic troubles propagate to neighboring nation-tribes, and the historian points out that the leader of the BNotC is no longer as high ‘n’ mighty as he once was.
So what’s the context that makes it sound more like demonology than just a not-very-hard-to-read assessment of current affairs?
Lucifer, Satan, the Devil, Beelzebub, Mephistopheles…
Just how many names does Old Scratch have?
So, {:-DF, are you saying that Isaiah 14:12 is actually referring to a king, a person, a real Human being and not the Devil? That this King screwed up royally and the writer is commenting on his stupidity? And that “Lucifer” should not even be a name for the Devil Himself?
Intriguing.
I think Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, et al would disagree.
