Was this shooting morally justified?

You mean, apart from breaking into her house with a knife and refusing to explain his presence.

Regards,
Shodan

And by the greatest of poor fortune his kitchen was decorated exactly as hers was?

Rotten luck, that was.

You do not* know* that he broke in and that it was his knife. It sure does appear that way and it might indeed be that way but you do not know for sure, not yet. If you are going to kill somebody you would want to know, not suspect.

Jaysus, this OP was so slanted I felt like it had a gun trained on me, telling me to hit justified. Plucky cute single mom! Vulnerable sleeping teen daughter! Hulking Intruder! With a knife! Who doesn’t comply even though Plucky Single Mom give him time to surrender! Of course the shooting was justified.

Let’s change things a bit. Instead of Josie, there’s Joe. Joe’s not a bad guy. A couple of days ago, he saw an elderly couple stranded by the side of the road and gave them a jump start. A week before that he saw his cute neighbor Josie trying to move some furniture into her house and gave her a hand. Even though he’s smitten with her, he did this simply because he likes helping, with no expectation of sex. But even his close friends will admit he’s got a temper. He’s got a few misdemeanor assaults on his record, and a couple of drunk and disorderlys. Even his bartender friends will admit that though they like him (he’s a great tipper) they do need to keep an eye on him.

Joe’s also not a racist, as such. His heroes include Jimi Hendrix and Jerry Rice. His Black and Hispanic co-workers all speak highly of him. (He’s a union certified electrician, and a damn good one.) His mentor was a very dark skinned Dominican. If he saw a Black guy being bullied by some White guys He would intervene on that guy’s behalf. And when Joe intervenes on your behalf, your ass has been intervened on and you will know it. He practices MMA fighting and briefly considered a pro wrestling career. However, in his deep heart, in the places he doesn’t really talk about or even admit to himself, he does think that Blacks are not as smart as Whites, and are more prone to criminality.

Joe comes home from the bar one night. He’s a little over the legal limit–let’s say .10, which for him is practically sober–but gets home safely. He sees a light on in his kitchen, but doesn’t think much of it. His only housemate is his cat, Marvin Straighte ( It’s a black cat with a very deep meow), but he figures he must have just left the light on. When he enters the house he hears some clattering in his kitchen. Now he is concerned. No way is Marvin making that noise. In fact he can see Marvin’s tail, from where Marvin is hiding under the couch. He retrieves one of his guns (He’s got a CCW but is self aware enough not to carry when he drinks) and goes to the kitchen. Good move on his part because there’s some skinny black dude, looks about fifty, drinking from his milk carton. There’s no sign of forced entry, so he must have left the back door open, which he knows he sometimes does. He points his gun at the intruder and tells him to get on the floor with his hands up. The intruder doesn’t comply–a novelty for Joe–and instead takes a step toward him, babbling incoherently about Jesus and how electricity equals mind control. Joe is alarmed and yells again. The intruder takes another step toward him and Joe empties his gun, all shots in the ten ring. He immediately calls the cops and gives them the bare details, but asks to speak to his lawyer. The cops understand. No charges are filed.

Still Justified?

To late to edit: Cancel the CCW, he probably wouldn’t get one with his record. But it doesn’t really matter, since he isn’t carrying anyway.

Yep. Justified.

BTW, I also agree it’s still justified. I just wanted it to be less over the top than the OP. (No offense Skald.)

Given only your description I’d have to say tragic but probably justified.

Oh, I agree that she was bloody terrified. No doubt. But in some people, and I may be one of them, being bloody terrified reduces them to gibbering, helpless idiots. I give chops to Jody for being able, while terrified, to hold it together enough to pull the gun, give clear instructions (more than once!), and respond appropriately when the intruder ignored those instructions and moved toward her.

I have been in a couple of terrifying-to-me situations – and not as terrifying as an intruder in my house! – and afterwards was deeply disappointed in my almost complete lack of intelligent, helpful response at the time. Fortunately, the situations were not life-threatening, so I am still here to report on my shame. I fear that, if in Jody’s situation, I would have stood frozen far too long and would have let the intruder get the drop on me before I could get the gun. Hell, I would probably forget I was even carrying a gun. No, I am not proud of this and, frankly, don’t know how I would fix it. Jody is my hero.

Nope. Intruder does not appear to have a weapon and appears to be more demented than dangerous. Joe gave only one warning. Joe sounds a big strong guy, intruder is “skinny” and, I’m guessing, older, so Joe could probably overpower him.

Now, if the intruder had done harm to Marvin Straighte, the shooting would be totally justified. :smiley:

All these different set ups, does justified in your mind change if it is not justified in someone else’s?

What does size or age have to do with it? Shooting a 12 year old girl can be justified in some cases. Just make the set up for it.

What are you going to do if this, or that, or this thing over here happens?

If you have not made up your mind before it ever starts, most likely you will not fair well when it does happen. Why do you think there are combat shooting schools, both civilian & military? Why do you think people practice these things?

When this stuff goes down, it is too late, no do overs, so prior thought & hopefully practice has been done.

My internal rules about intruders was very different when I had little children in the house. ( For one thing, there could never be a guess, a family member, a friend, who could get into my house innocently without my knowledge. Also none were that stupid. )

Now, with critters, a stranger drunk or mentally ill still can not get in by accident. We are always home, retirement ya know, and we have warning signs. Also, no friends or family or neighbors that stupid no matter their age, you just do not do that in the country, but the decisions have been made.

I am sure some crazy set up could be made that would require a completely different response but in regards to, ( in my house without permission ), my stock responses are justified. I can stop doing something way faster that I can think of something to do.

Guns, airplanes, cars, skydiving, etc., best to have a plan that has been practiced than waiting for stuff to happen & then going, “I guess I need to think real fast now or there is death for somebody happening PDQ.” Driving public not scare you? It sure does me. One of the big reasons I am still alive I think.

But it does demonstrate that no matter how you stack it some people will still say the shooting wasn’t justified.

Call it illegally entered if you like - it makes no difference.

I don’t think you need a greater degree of certainty than Jodi already had.

A stranger in her kitchen, a knife that wasn’t hers, and he will not obey her legitimate instructions and instead acts in a threatening manner. That’s plenty close enough.

Bang.

Regards,
Shodan

I’m sure when Jodi doesn’t act it will be of great comfort to her surviving relatives the know he was an intruder and not just suspect it.

You don’t know if he illegally entered then.

I have a question. Assume that the guy in the kitchen was invited into the house by the daughter, who was in her bedroom getting some MacGuffin. He was totally innocent, had reason to be there and had never done a thing wrong in his life.

Jodi has shot him. In America, does she face charges?

Why did he advance on her, then? Why didn’t he immediately drop the milk and say “Don’t shoot! I’m a friend of Amy’s!”

If this was the case, why didn’t he say so the minute he saw her and the gun? I mean, if I was at a friend’s house and her mom pointed a gun at me, there would be no shutting me up about how her daughter invited me in and how we were friends and please, please, call your daughter downstairs to vouch for me.

I’m no lawyer but if all the other circumstances remain unchanged (the knife, his approaching her when told to stop, etc.) then from what I’ve seen Jodi’s most likely in the clear.
She’s not a mind reader and she was in reasonable fear for her safety from a man in her home without her permission.
What’s she supposed to do? Wait till he’s picked up the knife and held it to her throat to say “You know, I’m really sure now that I should have shot this guy, what a shame…”

Hey, if you’re drunk enough to stumble into the wrong house and not know it, are you really going to notice the wallpaper?

Not in America and not in most places. She had a reasonable apprehension the man was an imminent threat to her life. You are still confused as to what the OP is asking.

In fairness, so are some people saying “he did the wrong thing.” Maybe, but that’s not the question.