Washed up comedians:

In My Humble Opinion
1

Since when did the words of Dennis Miller begin to hold weight with regard to the political aspects of the U.S.A.? What next, Mork From Ork? Damn. And Al Frankin? By this measure, when people wash out as public entertainers, they will have fresh new careers as political pundits “who have the knowin’ on a lot of things”

Jeexus, America is going to have to do better than this. Like: Ronny made it, so they think they can too? (Hi Arnold!).

Granted, I been out of the country for seven years, back only two years, but when I left, Miller was just this guy who did “Live Update” on Saturday Night Live, and Franken was this total wash up who blew it with the “Franken Decade” shtick on the same show – he sucked. Franken was an absolute wash up by the early 90’s, and now the papers, radio and TV expect me to take him seriously, and Miller too? They probably used to snort Coke together! What’s up with that? Seriously WTF?

Did something happen while I was gone? All of a sudden we are taking the words of comedians to be the word of reason? Miller is getting serious airtime as a political pundit, but it still seems to me that he is just this guy looking for the spot light. I really don’t know weather or not this guy has any degree in Political Science, I can’t see where he has any experience in international affairs. Hell, it looks to me like Drew Carry has spent more time abroad than this idiot. But I don’t see him trying to shape public opinion, except about Soccer, which is a just a game. I can’t see why I should take this guy seriously. I keep expecting him to make a joke. But he never does. So IMHO – this wash up, Dennis Miller, really needs to take a vacation, remember where he comes from and realize that he has NO IDEA what he is talking about. As for Franken? He was a total wash up way before I left the country. Why does any one listen to what either of these two guys have to say with regard to political matters? They are COMMIDEANS, and poor ones at that. That’s all they are. That’s all they were. Why now so much attention on their “oh so astute” understanding of world affairs?

Enlighten me please.

2

I’d simply assumed that Miller is the one who was once mugged, and Franken once arrested.

3

I think partially what you are observing was fueled by Jon Stewart taking over the Daily Show in 1999 – and specifically its coverage of the 2000 U.S.election. The Daily Show pulls in an impressive number of heavy weights, including this week Mushariff of Pakistan. Sometime, I think, around 2000 the Daily Show, a comedy show, “mattered” - not the way Johnny Carson’s monologue mattered although that was part of it - it mattered like what they say on Meet the Press or Capital Gang mattered. The last 7 years has seen a steady and accelerated decline of the mainstream media and a rise of blogs, and niche shows …

Someone famous who can pull in a niche and be heard, and maybe “do what the Daily Show does” (which pulls in about 1.4 million viewers a night, Fox News pulls 1.5M, CBS under Schaeffer had about 6.8M) Someone like Franken and Miller, makes a wave in a way that in 1999 they wouldn’t have.

Worth mentioning and maybe you knew Miller did Monday Night Football for a bit and had a short lived Cable news show.

Fraken has a political Radio show as well.

4

Comedians have been making biting political commentary since the days of Will Rogers and before. When they cross into serious political commentary, they’re like anyone else who should have to present credentials to be taken seriously. People like Garafolo, who were annoying as comics, are even more so as political “experts”. No different than actors, really.

5

I put this here because there isn’t really a debate because politicians will do this no matter what. And I’m not particularly exercised about it so it doesn’t belong in the Pit. It is just something politicians do that I and others have noticed.

Anyway, I was watching GW’s rebuttal of the intelligence report section that says that the Iraq war increases the number of terrorists. His method was to pretend that the report said that the Iraq war caused terrorism and then to rebut that. For example he said that the report tied Iraq to terrorism and then sternly pointed out that there was no Iraq war when the World Trade Center was bambed, or when the USS Cole was attacked or on 9/11. Ergo, was the implied conclusion, Iraq doesn’t increase terrorism. This is, of course, the strawman technique and is used all of the time.

When a politician is being interviewed and gets an awkward question one favorite method of ducking it is to say that first some background must be supplied so as to put the matter in context. By the time the “context” has been supplied, chances are the actual question has been forgotten, even by the interviewer. The interviewee knows that the TV interviewer is on a pretty rigid schedule and if enough time can be used up in bafflegab he or she can pretty much answer the easy questions and duck all the others. Or many others don’t even get asked.

Another use of the “background for context” ploy is to slip in the interviewee’s agenda rather than that of the interviewer. And to put in some point that will lead the interview off the topic of the original question and onto something the interviewee wants to talk about.

Now these are all standard methods and everyone uses them.

In my opinion, though, they don’t serve public discourse well. Sure, the interviewer is not God and might not ask questions that will really enlighten the public on important matters. However most serious ones try to do that and their purpose is usually to try to bring some light to the politicians view on public affairs.

Of course, if you watch the performance, the technique does let the listener know what subjects the politician wants to avoid and this has some value.

Anyone have any thoughts as to what interviewrs can do to make sure the interview stays on track? Chris Mathews’ technique is to never let anyone complete a sentence but that leaves me cold.

6

Moderators: After I posted my post just above I discovered that I had put it in a thread about comedians and opinion. It doesn’t belong there, I though I was tarting a new thread. Can you get rid of that post and this one somehow?

7

If they back up their views with relevant facts what’s the problem? I could see being pissed about it if they were full of crap and people believed they were right because “It’s Dennis Miller! He used to be on SNL so he must be right about everything!” but I don’t think that’s the case.

I’ve read some of Franken’s stuff - he makes his points, backs them up with cites and the way he writes obviously reflects his sense of humor (that’s what he does).

I don’t give him any more credence because of who he is though.

8

According to the third paragraph on this page (which does not allow you to copy and paste), Miller has a degree in journalism from Pittsburgh’s Point Park College.

Franken graduated cum laude in 1973 from Harvard with a bachelor’s in either government or general studies.

9

Comedians who either never were, or simply cease to be funny tend to become serious people. I’m fairly certain there’s either a law or a theorem concerning this.

10

I’m not going to bother with the cut and paste, pretty looking “he said she said” post this time: All was well said, and all well put. You will see that I read what you all had to say.

Interesting. I didn’t know that either one of them had any credentials. I didn’t know that there was something big that happened media-wise while I was gone, with the exception that over the last 8-9 years, in other countries it has become popular to hate the United States. So much so that it’s getting down right dangerous to be an American. Most of the people I have met don’t have a problem with me, but they sure don’t like “us” on the whole. Seems weird to me to listen/watch/read Americans who were second rate to begin with, but kind of funny, take up new careers as people who would –seem- to support the point of view that America is a fucked up place. Americans in general are idiots, and the USA would just be better off if it went full bore socialist tomorrow. Yeah, I know Frankin has a show, He was (IMHO) annoying as a comedian and he is just as bad as a political whatchamacallit. Miller? Wow, too bad. It’s easy to be a communist when you drive a BMW.

Obviously, Miller has never seen a communist mob rape a family just because they think they are entitled to the land that that family works. Well I have. I have also seen the damage being Politically Correct to a fault can do. It’s ONLY in America that it would be “a bad idea” to insult you enemies. That’s why we are the laughing stock of the world. WE “wouldn’t want to offend”. And the world knows it. It’s easy to tell America what it needs, from Hollywood. Its interesting to think that these two guys would simply adore to see the USA fall, just so they could say “SEEEEE, I told you SO! – because I am GREAT!” . And when America fell, they would think they could just go back to their privileged lives? These fools would be among the first against the wall.

And if people like them keep it up, yeah, it’s going to come to that. You know it, but we wouldn’t want to say any thing about it, after all, we wouldn’t want to offend anyone, even if they mean to kill us. What the hell! June Cleaver For President!

So I’m popping channels, and what face do I see but Dennis Miller, talking about how the USA sucks, the President is an asshole, and how if we just invited the rest of the world over for some wine and cheese, no one would want to kill us. Then I pump through AM radio and I hear Frankin saying something to the effect of: If Americans weren’t such assholes the world would LOVE ME, oops, I mean…us, to bad we have this guy as our president. If this guy was NOT our president the world would love ME. .err… I mean US… (yeah Frank – we get it).

So what is gang? Is it truly us? Is it truly HIM, (him being the president), or does the whole country really truly want to suck up and feel guilty for it’s success, and therefore be beaten down, screwed over, and hosed off for being so happy in its prosperity?

Seems to me neither of these two “pundits” have ever had to make a living wage outside the USA. (And YES I have – and still DO- so cut that line right now), If they had, they might just shut up and go back to being funny. Which neither of them ever was.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

11

Wow, you really have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, do you? You’re pretty much flat-out making up shit about Dennis Miller. There’s no way in hell you saw him saying anything remotely like “America sucks,” or calling the president an asshole on TV. Far from being a communist, the guy has become the biggest Bush suck-up since Laura gave George his “special present” for their tenth anniversery. He’s been given rides on Airforce One, and has publically stated that he will not mock the president. A shame, because he used to be a damned fine comedian, but 9/11 apparently scared all the funny out of him. He’s been a political shill for the Republican party ever since. However, his comedy has always been political, and highly cerebral. He’s an intelligent, educated man.

Franken, too, has always been a political comedian. Calling him a “has-been” makes no sense, as he’s currently at the height of his career. And he’s become succesful doing exactly what he’s always done: offering politcal satire with a sharp leftist bent. He’s also not remotely anti-American. He’s ardently anti-Bush and anti-war, but he also does about a dozen USO shows a year. All told, he’s spent more time in Iraq than the Commander in Chief. And he does it for free.

You really should try to find out what these people actually do before you start blasting them for doing it. Judging by the political screed in your last post, you’d probably quite enjoy Dennis Miller these days.

By the way, what does earning a living outside the US have to do with anything?

12

WTF are you talking about? Do you actually have a point?

I don’t feel guilty for our successes - I feel guilty that my country has (for quite a long while now) has Imperialist practices that tend to result in the deaths of a lot of people in other countries. It bothers me deeply that we don’t treat their (currently, the Iraqis) suffering with the same gravity as our own. I think we display arrogance when we export our culture and values into places where they are not welcome, and I suspect that such behavior probably doesn’t make us any friends.

If we’re in any danger of “falling”, I suspect it’s our arrogance and ignorance that will do us in, not any communistic or socialistic tendencies.

However, if your experiences overseas have resulted in some insights that you can offer concerning world politics, I’d be delighted to hear them.

So far you just sound like a babbling idiot.

13

Oh my God. Let me get this straight. You feel entitled to condemn Dennis Miller for being a Communist?

Dennis Miller has become one of the biggest supporters of the president and the political right since 9/11. I mean, aside from the general incoherence of your posts (you actually think public figures are advocating Communism in the United States? Are you high?), you obviously don’t have even the faintest clue what you’re talking about. If you had watched five minutes of Dennis Miller, you would have realized that he’s not even remotely leftist. I mean, he’s one of the most pro-administration, right-wing commentators in the mainstream media today.

But you didn’t, and you decided - on the basis of absolutely nothing - to bitch about Dennis Miller for arguing exactly the opposite of the politics he actually argues. I’m used to misinformed rants about the political scene in the United States, but this really takes the cake. I mean, Jesus, how shameless do you have to be to throw a tantrum when you don’t even know enough to know the politics of the people involved? It’s not like Dennis Miller’s political opinions have to be subtly teased out of his words, after all. What’s your encore going to be - screaming at Ralph Nader for his attempts to get rid of anti-trust laws and overturn environmental restrictions on large corporations? Blowing a gasket at James Dobson for his militant atheism? Bitching about Michael Moore for producing documentaries full of Republican propaganda?

My God. Do you vote?

14

You said you were out of the country for a while. It might have been said, and in that case, I missed it. In what country did you live?
(Is it a possiblity that you’ve confused the American “left” and “right”?)

15

Back in the 1970s, when I was a typical, easily-amused teenager, I always knew when it was time to turn off “Saturday Night Live” and go to bed: the moment Al Franken and Tom Davis came on!

If Franken really is an honors graduate of Harvard, he should have gone to law school or run for office decades ago. He has absolutely no talent as a comedian.

16

I don’t know what the situation was in the 1970’s when Al Franken attended Harvard, but in recent years about nine of ten students graduated with honors.

17

What? Who said they do? His words don’t hold any weight. He couldn’t even hold an audience on MSNBC. The only people I hear talking about Dennis Miller are Dopers who say “he used to be funny, now he sucks.” Just because he talks politics doesn’t mean people think his opinions matter.

Franken has a bigger audience, but it’s not like everybody waits for his views with bated breath. He’s reliably liberal and is interesting to people who like him (or hate him). Maybe things will change if he really does run for a Senate seat.

18

For the same reason comedian Rush Limbaugh was able to do it.

Let’s face it – Rush could have had a good career in standup. And I don’t mean it sarcasticially: his using the vacuum cleaner sound effect while discussing abortion is hilarious and nasty. But he does better hiding his shtick as political commentary.

As for the general trend – people are more interested in hearing quick, pithy bites than any reasoned political commentary. Political commentary is entertainment, so it’s logical that comedians join in.

19

I’m not really sure these “comediene turned politician” types would know what to do when they got into office.
Anyone can point fingers, criticize, expose failures and show contradictions made by current politicians.
These guys have just made names for themselves by serving it up with a side helping of “wit”.

Sure they may be on the mark with their observations but have they ever given examples of any real solutions to real problems?
Everyone loves to be a critic because that’s the easy part. Being the guy with the balls to have the answers and put himself on the line trying his solutions is the hard part.

20

How much expertise and ability do you think other legislators bring with them to their office? Do you really think the average freshman representative has that much more knowledge and capacity to deal with the issues than Al Franken or other celebrity political commentators?