Bernie Sanders briefed by U.S. officials that Russia is trying to help his presidential campaign
This certainly gives me no pleasure to report. The idea seems to be that Bernie is the weakest opponent to The Donald. The Donald is of course who they want in the White House.
How does this change your thinking?
I’ve liked Mayor Pete all along. Will vote for Bernie if he is the nominee. So, hasn’t changed my mind at all. I will vote for whoever is up against Trump.
The Russians are smarter than me, it seems. I was one of those Democratic voters who cheered on when some Democratic voters in a “cross-over” state voted for Trump in a primary, thinking he’d be the weakest Republican candidate. Oops. (Well, maybe he still was — we’ll never know).
Or the Russians are failing to heed “be careful what you wish for.”
Or, they’re playing multi-dimensional chess, and really want Bernie to be president.
If they are trying to help Sanders IMO it is because they (and Trump (and we already know he thinks this)) think Trump could easily defeat Sanders.
I’m sorry to say this is not news to anyone who read the Mueller report or paid attention to what he said at his press conference, that Russian interference has never abated. So in that respect, I have always viewed Bernie as the weakest candidate for the general election and close to my last choice – even though I agree with many of his views.
Also, I’ve been getting the same “something is really wrong with this primary” vibe as I got in 2016 that turned out to be based on Russian subversion tactics meant to divide us. The hostility, even on this board, toward anyone daring to criticize Bernie is entirely outsized to the norms of lively debate – even those of us who have said unequivocally we will vote for Bernie if he is the nominee.
So this is how it changes my thinking: Perhaps we can start with ourselves, recognize that we’re largely on the same team and engage with one another in as non-snarky a way as possible. I get really sick of the world-weary, “god-you-are-so-dumb” default tone I see in so many responses. And I will admit I am guilty of using it at times of it, too. I am going to do my best to stop.
I’ve perceived it entirely differently: the hostility on this board toward anyone daring to support Sanders is entirely outsized–even toward those of us who have said unequivocally we will support whoever the nominee is.
Interesting that we’ve seen it so differently.
I agree with this, every word.
Pretty much nothing new … no shit they try and influence the elections, they always have it’s just been since the internet/social media that is has become very noticeable. It doesn’t make a candidate more or less qualified just avoid the hyperbole.
Americans, especially those in government, didn’t used to help them.
I think we’re on opposite sides of this issue and for that reason, have had exactly opposite experiences. It’s on both sides, no question.
So what exactly are the Russians doing or the Chinese or the Iranians or God forbid anybody else? What exactly are we supposed to be looking out for and where are we supposed to be looking out for it? How is it supposed to influence us once we find it? Maybe creating a nation of chicken littles every election is the real goal.
I agree.
I’ve spent some time, in recent days, reading Twitter threads dominated by self-professed Bernie fans. Of course there’s no telling who’s actually a fan of his (much less a registered US voter) and who’s there to stir up mischief.
What’s stood out:
***The high emotion, for everything. Every topic is LIVE OR DIE / ARE YOU STUPID / YOU MUST BE A CORPORATE WHORE / YOU’RE A MORON GO KILL YOURSELF / HOW CAN YOU THINK THAT WAY YOU IDIOT etc etc etc. If people paid by Putin are encouraging this, they are finding fertile ground. (I won’t quote sample tweets here–it’s just the usual dimwitted invective, as shown in the all-caps.)
***The parroting of the standard Don’t Vote memes: Your vote stands for YOU and you must not cast it for anyone who doesn’t hold your positions on every issue! Politicians have an OBLIGATION to court you and please you and if they don’t, they don’t deserve your vote. If they don’t give us what we want they can just hold their breath because we will stay home! Staying home and not voting is the mark of a sophisticated person! (Or of a “spiritual” person.) Staying home and not voting will teach them a lesson! Next time they’ll work harder to please us! Etc. etc. etc.
Sample tweet: “No one has a right to your vote. If someone wants your vote let them earn it. Let them appeal to you.”
***The encouragement to see the DNC, and the Democratic Party in general, as the Worst Evil On Earth. They are AWFUL and they do not deserve to be rewarded with our votes (etc.)!
Sample tweet: “I gave them my vote begrudgingly in 2016 and they lost to an orange idiot. So excuse me if im not excited to repeat that mistake again.”
Another: “The GOP is banking on the DNC cocking their own voters over. The DNC is fine with being GOP enablers. Welcome to the politics of Neoliberalism.”
***Explicit mockery of any mention of Russian involvement in our elections that’s been in the news (such as has come out today and the past few days). The idea is repeatedly advanced that it’s utterly ridiculous to assume that the Kremlin has anything resembling a social-media strategy to meddle in US elections–or to put it another way, the findings of Mueller’s report are soundly and thoroughly rejected and derided.
Sample tweet: “How are you people so [effing] lazy that you still cry “Russia” at every opportunity?”
Who knows what percentage of actual American-voter Bernie supporters are purveyors of this stuff; it could be 1% or 90%. No telling, at this point. (That awaits a full-fledged poly-sci or sociological study.)
But it’s notable for how closely it adheres to what’s coming out of Kremlin-directed troll farms. Same themes; same emotion-intended-to-divide.
I think you are missing the point. It’s not what Russia/China/Iranians/North Koreans/Turks are doing. It’s how one party is welcoming the foreign assistance and doing nothing to protect our elections from the interference. This is a national security issue and every American should be insisting that our government officials protect us from such subversion. That’s what’s different, and that’s where we need to pay attention and hold those officials to account.
Why have no election security bills been brought to the floor of the Senate for a vote?
Why are no Republican Senators speaking out against this foreign interference, or trying to do anything to stop it?
Why is Bill Barr requiring all investigations into foreign election interference coordination with American citizens to be personally approved by him?
These questions are just for openers.
You’re talking about a better world – but we’re living in this one, where folks take every opportunity to politicize.
It wasn’t Russian trolls chanting “Wall Street Pete!”, and booing him before Bernie’s victory speech in NH. Those were U.S. trolls.
Sherrerd, that’s fascinating, disturbing and sadly, not surprising. Thanks for taking the bullet. I don’t do Twitter or Facebook, so I never saw all the crap that was flowing through those sewers. But I could feel its influence in the anger levels of every side.
Again, thanks for sharing what you’ve observed. I hope you will continue to do so.
I will (and I appreciate the kind words). But it definitely is treacherous territory; just today I got into a testy back-and-forth with a long time follower/person I follow, all over a misunderstood sentence. We cleared it up. But that sort of thing is happening all over the internet (sometimes without a resolution).
Putin has chosen the easiest possible way to affect the world: make it angrier and more divided. (If I believed in hell I’d certainly think he deserved its deepest level.)
Yes. But being human, they do respond to the encouragement they find online, and a lot of that is propaganda (rather than authentic reactions to candidates).
FWIW, most people in most Western democracies would back Bernie, too. If for no better reason than most people in most Western democracies simply can’t imagine life without universal health care.
It doesn’t change anything for me. He’s not my first choice but it’s looking like I’ll end up voting for him barring some unexpected result in the next couple of states, and some people in Russia having opinions about “electability” that match what American pundits blare 24/7 on CNN is not very surprising or concerning to me. I also find it suspicious that this is coming out the day before a key nominating contest and the day after Trump installed a Twitter troll as Director of National Intelligence.