Well, Lib, I am bothered by the Scientology ties for the same reason I’d be bothered by ties with any other criminal organization, especially one as violent as the Cult of Scientology.
I’d like to make some bold pronouncement now, but I’m really doing all I can about both Scientology and Michael Jackson. This reinforces everything I thought about both. Nothing new was learned, nothing new must be done.
Criminal organization? Sorry, I was unaware.
Slightly OT: There is a new poster named Scientologist on the SD. I hope he’ll chime in with a “Ask the…” thread.
This whole thread is messing with my engrams. I think I need a recharge.
Good thing my Visa’s paid off!
WTF? I posted replies to that quote. Stupid hamsters.
Okay, here’s the gist of my missing post:
Jackson may not be too popular anymore, but many of the other people on the single are:
Also, the single was recorded two years ago, but its release date has been delayed due to legal issues.
And, last but not least, we can now add scheming-crook-working-for-a-cult to the list of Jackson’s negative attributes.
And here I thought I had made enough noise about this issue to educate everyone on this matter.
So, you apparently don’t know very much about Scientology as it really is, as opposed to how it presents itself. That’s expected, I suppose, even though it surprises me. But I’ve been looking at Scientology from the `unofficial’ perspective for years now, and it’s difficult to see anyone who still buys the official line. I present this paragraph as an apology in advance for anything I might skip over in my rush to present everything I think is important, simply because I’ve assumed too much.
Here is some basic history of Scientology:
It is from the site linked to below. (The FAQ section.)
Operation Clambake is the general one-stop shop for the real Scientology information. It’s run by Anders Heidal-Lund in the Netherlands and hosted by XS4ALL, the only ISP I know to have stood up to Scientology’s legal harassment.
Lisa McPherson was killed by Scientology. That is the most spectacular single crime, because it directly created a corpse. Scientology’s other crimes, especially brainwashing myriad followers over the course of decades, are arguably more important, but this one became the rallying cry.
Here are some brief quotes from the site:
Let’s look at that, shall we? Lisa was 36 years old, had been a Scientologist from the age of 18, and was obviously in need of mental help. However, Scientology thinks that all of the world’s problems are created by [Psychs](http://www.xenu.net/archive/dictionary/)', their term for psychiatrists. (Use a find-in-page feature to find the Psychs’ entry.)
So they shipped her off to a hotel in Ft. Harrison, Florida. She underwent an Introspection Rundown,' where she was placed in solitary confinement and denied any food or liquid. The last possible day she could have had any liquid was [November 30, 1995](http://www.lisamcpherson.org/lisasum.htm). The Introspection Rundown’ is how Scientology handles anyone who’s had a psychotic break.
From here on out, it becomes rather unsurprising: She died, Scientology covered its ass and threatened everyone looking into the death with lawsuits, and fended off criminal prosecution (Nixon could have taken classes from Hubbard in that area). The only surprising thing is the `philosophy’, and how insane those people really are.
The basics of Scientology’s dogma. To summarize, they believe that Xenu, ruler of the galaxy 75 million years ago, dealt with overpopulation by using psychiatrists to call in everyone under his domain for income tax inspections. (Yeah, that’s as much sense as this story ever makes.) He injected them with a mixture of alcohol and glycol to paralyse them, and shoved them into spacecraft that looked like DC-8s. He then put them in volcanoes and killed them all with H-bombs.
Once they’d all been vaporised, he captured their souls, or thetans, and showed them really bad movies. Movies about God and Jesus and the Devil and so on, that would plague them with false ideas about the Universe. That is called implanting.' Those thetans, confused from the horrible movies (which were, incidentally, Charlton Heston's first gig), infested the bodies that remained in clusters of a few thousand. Then they became body thetans.’
Scientology’s stated goal is to free people of body thetans through a process called auditing. What is auditing? Well, you grab onto a galvinometer (called an E-meter) and tell a Scientology official your sins. Eventually, you move from being suppressive' (Scientology-speak for unwilling to bear your soul to a money-grubbing SOB’) to clear' (perfectly brainwashed by Hubbard’s minions, and thousands of dollars poorer’). The clears supposedly have super-powers, and Scientologists believe that clears exist on Earth right now.
Now, does auditing sound like … psychoanalysis? The tool of the hated `psychs’? Yep. Hubbard wasn’t real original (he’d been a hack writer until he dreamed up the Cult), but he was charismatic and crazy as a fucking loon.
So, those are the beliefs, and those are how they are actually applied. There’s much more, but this post is running long and I think my links will speak for themselves to a large extent. To point up one example of how they simply refuse to give up, despite any setbacks, I give you Scientology vs. The Internet, in which the Cult tried to squelch a Usenet newsgroup (alt.religion.scientology) because it was disseminating the facts.
gotta admit, the guy really knows how to pad his resume.
IIRC, in the wake of 9/11, Scientology set up a toll-free number that masqueraded as a greiving service. Perhaps this is more of the same?
Um, actually I believe Nicole Kidman has said she’s not a $cientologist, but still Catholic.
Anyhoo, what do you expect? Jackson is out of his fucking gourd.
Yeah, what an interesting case that was. Here’s a chronology of what went down between XS4ALL and Scientology. Journalist Karin Spaink, whose webpage (hosted by XS4ALL) was the cause for all the fuss, is still fighting the good fight, as far as I know. Here’s her homepage.
People believe this BS? It doesn’t even sound like a good plot for a science fiction story? I know that there are people who need something to follow but how can anyone give this shit credence? Come to that how the hell do the Raelians get any followers?
I don’t think they tell you that part right off. By the time you get to this level of “truth” you’re so brainwashed, intimidated by peer pressure (and other types of pressure) and have invested so much time and money…mostly money…that you’re ready to believe anything. Oh, they also keep personal records of analysis sessions for blackmail purposes…I doubt the most famous Scientologists could get out Scientology even if they wanted to…
It’s worse than that, Derleth.
While on a trip to DC with friends, I had the opportunity to see a Scientology center and view the introductory film.
The short version is that the film argues that because the US government has granted the C of S tax free status, it must be a theologically valid religion. It then spends the next 20 minutes or so assuring you that nothing bad you’ve ever done is your fault but is caused by your Reactive Mind.
The staff had dead, lifeless eyes and were genuinely frightening to be around.
But, then it got worse.
We were introduced to the senior staff member. Her eyes were even more dead than the others. Her presence still more disquieting. Certain disturbing traits of the others were pronounced in her.
The others had a coarse, rubbery skin. I had assumed it was due to lack of sunlight and an improper diet. Now, I wondered if it was due to something more malign. Several of the others had creases in the sides of their necks. The Senior’s neck had folds which made me think of gills. Her whole appearance, in fact, called to mind the royal footman of Alice In Wonderland. Indeed, she seemed not so much to walk as to hop- a strange jerking, shuffling, gait. Her voice was a gutteral thing much akin to croaking. Her speech to us stirred memories of some evil thing I had heard and , mercifully, forgotten. Her family was of old New England stock. The coastal town they dwelt in had long been prosperous. But several decades ago, the fish in the area all but disappeared. The town pastor exhorted the people to place their trust in Christ, saying that God would reward their faith with swelling nets. But one of the trading ships returned home with a copy of Dianetics. He explained the teachings of Scientology to the people, who soon completely abandoned Christianity. The townspeople were soon ridding themselves of body Thetans and undergoing miraculous changes.
I realised that I must take it upon myself to debate her. With a wonderfully theatrical gesture, I rolled up my sleeves (not only to demonstrate that I was about to go to work, but also to display a marvellous bracelet I had bought in a thrift shop the previous day- a band of some strange alloy set with a greenish piece of soapstone carved into an odd five-pointed star.), and began to outline my arguments. The woman was shocked and frightened (she seemed almost physically pained) by my oratory and we were ejected from the building.
Well, if nothing else, Cthulu will be pissed. Michael Jackson better watch his ass.
Come on, you know someone’s got to ask…
-Joe, you may think me insane but I must tell this story first…
I dislike the whole ethos and concept of Scientology as much as any person, however the reason for this is when you take a look at the behaviour of organised religions, even over the past ten years, let alone the last ten centuries, you have to conclude that religion attracts that kind of power hungry assholes that seem to be able to justify killing in all manner of horrific ways.
Look at what is going on in India, with the Hindus especially trying to literally burn out Moslems, or Moslems trying to destroy Christians in Sudan, or the the Mid east conflicts with thier unspeakable horror.
Religion has tried to deny intellect, surpress basic facts by torture murder and censorship, along with banishment, starvation and far worse.
Compared to all this, Scientology is a pretty mild pussycat.
Tough on religion and the causes of religion, to paraphrase Tony Blair(in a way he would definately not approve)
DocCathode - Remember how your grandmother never spoke of her family, and never mentioned where she came from? Well… um… Maybe you’d better sit down for this one…
Last I heard, Michael Jackson had offered to pay for his mom to have some plastic surgery - seeing as how she doesn’t look like any of her children anymore.
Oooooooh, pitting Jacko and Scientology.
Are you sure you can take the heat? 