Many people say PKs are bad but there is no other way to get a winner after 120 minutes are played since players are too tired.
What other ideas have been tried to avoid using PKs when the game is tied? A simple suggestion is sudden death - first goal in OT wins the game. Used in the NHL for the playoffs and I think other hockey leagues.
We pretty much have this thread already in this forum, it’s still on the page:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=878356
That’s been tried as the Golden Goal. Teams played ultra-defensively, so it didn’t really work out.
One suggestion is to have the PKs after 90 minutes, and then play the extra-time. At least one side has to really go for it then
Not clear on what your saying here- do mean 0-0 after 90, Pk’s go 5-4, you start extra time with the score 5-4?
I prefer sudden death/golden goal even with its problems- it seems wrong in a sport with goals so hard to come by, you could have extra time and have someone score, and still be tied at the end.
Or I think extra time with 10 v 10 or 9 or 9 the first 15, and 8 v 8 or so the next 15- more space, more likely to score.
To get really out there? Keepers cant use their hands in extra time!
And for a brief period the Silver Goal. For about a decade back then FIFA really did their best to ruin tournament football.
you have a sport where it’s very hard to score and then you decide a game by a method where it’s very easy to score? Not very logical to put it nicely.
Well if looking for a method to increase the chance of determining a winner without PK’s through normal play, without resorting to stats like who had more shots or more possession, how else could you go about it without changing the basic play in extra time somewhat? The players are exhausted after 90- allowing more subs perhaps?
Tweaking the offside rule has been mentioned as a possibility, but not sure how to best go about that? I think the 1970’s NASL at first for the entire game had the offside rule at 35 yards instead of midfield?
If there was an easy answer, if would be in effect by now 
Phase one: corner kicks. Both teams send five players to each end zone. Goalies stay put. First player of one team picks a corner, does the corner kick, play continues for ten seconds. Once time runs out, at the other end of the field, first player of other team picks a corner, does the corner kick, play continues for ten seconds. Repeat for second through fifth players of each team. After all ten corner kicks, if tie is broken, game over. Otherwise, the goalies (and no one else) switch ends. Repeat corner kicks for the next set of players. After everyone (except goalies) has taken corner kicks, either tie is broken, or move on to second phase.
Phase two: free kicks. Keep the same five-five-goalie split of each team. First player of one team picks any spot on the field out side the box, free kicks from that spot, play continues for ten seconds. Once time runs out, do same thing at other end of the field. After five free kicks from each team, either tie is broken or goalies only swap ends, and play continues with next set of free kicks. After everyone has take a free kick, either tie is broken, or move on to third phase.
Phase three: penalty kicks. Same as current tie breaker.
The idea behind this set of tie-breakers is that play changes from most like regular play to least like.
I think the PK spot is too close. The shot comes so quickly that random luck is a bigger factor than skill. I think they should have the shot be taken farther out so it becomes more a matter of skill rather than a guessing game of which side to go for. A lot of poor kicks can go in if the goalie jumps one way and the ball goes the other. So here’s what I would suggest:
When the shot is taken farther away, skill becomes a bigger factor. The kicker has to be more precise and the goalie has more time to actually react. I think something like that would ensure the winner was the team which had more skill versus the team which was better at guessing.
The idea is that the team that loses on PKs has to win in extra time. The tie-break is decided in advance kind of thing. Who knows if it would work in reality though.
I think the best idea is the penalty shoot-out after 90, then the extra time. It seems to offer the best balance of fairness.
I like the Korean K-League’s version: All tie games settled by PKs after just 90 minutes. No extra periods.
But yes, if PKs have to be avoided, then a Golden Goal is the best solution. Unlike American football, in which having the ball first in the (past-era) sudden death OT was a huge advantage, in soccer there is a fair amount of turnovers.
Agree, to go through thirty extra minutes, actually have additional goals scored, and still have the chance of a tie score and PK’s is madness.
It has been tried, extensively. All it does is encourage defensive play and a general dissatisfaction. The players didn’t like it and the fans didn’t like it.
Apart from that…yeah, perfect solution.
So you’d have the extra time continue indefinitely until there is a goal scored?
No, I also like the golden goal- I know the complaints about it are common and not unique to you, but I don’t see it- if you play full extra time, teams can also play defensive to get to PK’s. A big club vs a minnow is going to push for goal, golden or not, not wanting to risk the uncertainty of penalties, whereas a minnow is going to play defensive either way, hoping to get to penalties.
It may not result in attractive soccer, but it highly increases the chance the match is settled by goals, not PK’s, which is the aim.
NHL does it that way but they score more goals. Rare to have 1-0 or 0-0 NHL game. And they have around 60 shots per game (30 per team) vs. some soccer games with less than 10 shots .
They also have free substitution, which would seem to be necessary if you’re going to allow extra time to just keep going and going until there’s a winner.
It has been done, it didn’t work. It was a good thing to try because it was thought that it would pan out as you suggest. It didn’t. Why do you think it would work differently now?