Thanks for your POV, and I agree with you 100%. But while I understand how they can do what they’re doing – IOW, why it’s legal – I’m still waiting for someone to defend the why.
Why is it good governance to not hold hearings to replace a justice who died 9 months before an election, and then hold hearings to replace a justice who died 7 weeks before an election?
(Besides “Because we can, so fuck you.”)
Figure, for the sake of argument, that they weren’t going to approve Obama’s nominee. Wasn’t going to happen, even if they went through the motions of holding a hearing.
So imagine for a moment that they chuckled amiably and *did * go through the motions of holding a hearing and voting ‘no’, all while thinking to themselves, okay, Obama maybe didn’t realize it, but, c’mon, now he’s sure to stop bothering. And then Obama, as if not getting it, puts up another nominee. And various Senators, in genuine amazement, turn to each other and say, wait, does he genuinely not get it? Is he going to keep trying this, because we haven’t made it clear enough?
We can only imagine that, because, y’know, they instead made it clear enough.
You answered your own question: because we can, so eff off.
The official rationale I’m seeing/hearing is that the voters gave them the power in the senate and gave them the power in the white house. And in a sense, even though I personally reject the inconsistency between 2016 and now, that argument can be made. I’m not making it, but I can see that point of view.
And in sense, maybe that’s exactly how Democrats and everyone who cares about progress should approach it going forward: if you want a good government, then let’s make damn sure that we all get off our duffs and vote in every single election.
I’m still bitter about the fact that a lot of progressives who supported Obama in 2008 couldn’t be bothered to vote for him in 2010, but then whinged like mad when he didn’t magically fix their problems in the years that followed.
Here’s an article from after the 2010 elections.
Young people simply didn’t show up. But they sure as hell showed up in 2016 to complain about how Democrats weren’t progressive enough - even though Dems delivered the most progressive piece of legislation in a generation, which arguably cost them the 2010 midterms in the process. That defeat also made it much harder for Dems to win elections in the years that followed thanks to Republican gerrymandering.
The last 10 years should serve as a stark reminder to voters who care about progress: shut up and vote. Put down your smartphone. Stop taking selfies. Stay off of Instabro. Vote.
Okay, maybe I’m moving the goalposts a bit here, but … the whole point of every branch of government is to do what’s right for the country, right?
Not what’s right for one party or the other – right for the country.
So if McConnell said, “my actions in 2016 and 2020, taken in their totality, were what I felt was right for the country,” how would a conservative defend that statement?
I’d really like to an answer that’s not just “Republicans are more right for the country than Democrats, so whatever benefits Republicans is right for the country.”
Well, look, you’re asking for a defense of a statement that what he did each time was what he thought was best for the country, and then you’re in effect saying — uh, not to answer by replying that, well, see, what he did, each time, was what he thought was best for the country.
I could maybe try to rephrase that, but it’d pretty much have to be that same idea that’s doing all the work: answering in terms of that statement.
Yeah, I know. I also know that the real answer is “Because we can, so fuck you.”
I was kinda hoping someone from the GOP side here would offer a substantive defense, but since 12 hours have elapsed I’m calling pencils down.
Given no evidence to the contrary, I’m ruling that McConnell’s actions are indefensible.
This. Absolutely.
Well, look, if you claim to “know that the real answer” isn’t that he’s doing what he thinks is best for the country, then there’s no point in someone saying to you that he’s doing what he thinks is best for the country; you don’t seem to have needed 12 hours, you don’t seem to have needed 12 seconds.
Pointing out the hypocrisy in Republican words and actions is useless because they have fully embraced hypocrisy as an effective tool in their fight to hold onto and increase power.
They are not ashamed of it.
I don’t want answers to questions; I want us to have the power. This country isn’t having a debate; this is political war, and I’d argue it’s a low-grade civil war at this point.
I want power. People who want healthcare for all, fairer taxation, higher wages, more labor rights, fairer immigration, and less discrimination should care about this and only this: having the legislative, executive, and judicial power to make things right.
This is why Republicans have changed the course of the country the last 40 years. In a cruel way, they understood what we, the naive little lambs being led to the slaughter, did not. They understood that having power is more important than winning the debate. You can win the debate, but if you don’t have the power, that means nothing, because the reality doesn’t change. In national polling, progressive ideas and policies and Democrats as a whole, have generally been more popular in national polling, but they’ve got shit to show for it. Why? Because they were more interested in debates than power. It’s time to change the dynamic. Time to shove our fists up their asses.
Indeed. We’re trying to win a debate; they’re not. They never were. They’re interested in power, and they know what they want to do with it once they have it.
Hypocrisy is part of their strategy. It just makes us angrier and more frustrated, and frustration can play into their hands, too, because a frustrated opponent is often an undisciplined opponent.
Why do you think Trump and his supporters are doubling down on dog whistles and amping up their attacks on BLM? They don’t just want a reaction; they want an overreaction. They don’t want peaceful protests; they want more of those protests in which BLM activists get in the faces of peacful white diners and pour their beer on them.
Hypocrisy, lies, spin, and antagonism. There’s no debating these mother fuckers. There is only winning and losing. People have to understand that.
12 hours ago I suspected the real answer, but I told myself to stay open minded. No conservatives offered satisfactory alternatives, while you and asahi confirmed my suspicion.
Yep.
Same with Trump’s lying. In the past, Republicans were hasty as hell to condemn Hillary Clinton for lying. Now, their President lies hundreds of times a year, and they’re perfectly okay. It doesn’t matter, only their climb to totalitarian power.
YOU might not, but you are just one random conservative. What do you think about the fact that dozens of high level Republicans, including the President of the United States, routinely and persistently claim that Democrats are evil and hate America? What do you think about the fact that promoting this viewpoint -DEMOCRATS ARE RADICAL SOCIALISTS THAT HATE AMERICA AND WANT TO DESTROY YOU AND YOUR COUNTRY is their prime campaign message?
You find a random comment suggesting that a conservative Supreme Court justice might not be fully in agreement with the Constitution distressing? What I find distressing is waking up every morning seeing the head of my country, the country that I pay taxes to, the country my family members have fought and died for - call me out as UNAMERICAN and EVIL and a THREAT simply because I don’t like him and won’t vote for him.
I hate toxic politics myself, but I know who’s perpetuating it.
But that is absolutely what they believe. You may be dumbfounded that they believe it, but I think they are 100% sincere about it. Many conservatives view liberalism as an existential threat to their concept of America and American values. Much as many liberals view conservatism as an existential threat in the same vein. The difference so far has been in how willing you are to violate established accepted practices and norms in a quest to oppose this perceived threat. IMHO it’s a genuine slippery slope and the Republicans have slid much farther and faster. Right or wrong all this talk from many liberals of we have to start taking the gloves off/be more ruthless/pack the court etc. is the Democrats being dragged down the hill behind them.
I’m not sure why you would refuse to accept that answer, because it is indeed the only answer there is.
Yes, Trump is evidence that a lot of people can make a horrible choice for whom they want to lead the country, and you know what? We can’t keep making bad choices without suffering the consequences.
Since 2003, a lot of voters have repeatedly made bad choices about the types of leadership we want.
A lot of Americans voted to support an administration that lied about a pretext for what is arguably the worst foreign policy decision in American history.
A lot of Americans supported an administration that diverted Army Corps of Engineer funding for levee protection so that it could use some of those funds for the worst foreign policy decision in American history, allowing an iconic American city to drown in the process.
A lot of Americans have voted for a party that repeatedly denies climate change in spite of overwhelming evidence, and overwhelming damage inflicted upon the US.
A lot of Americans have voted for a party whose policies support wealth and income inequality not seen in 100 years.
They have voted for policies that led to the financial crisis of 2007 and not even two years removed from that debacle, they voted Republicans back into power because they equated universal healthcare with communism and death panels.
Now we’ve got tens of millions of people who won’t even cooperate with orders to wear a mask in public, which has led to one of the worst pandemic outcomes of any country on the planet.
Sorry, but Constitutions and Democracies aren’t indestructible. You’re terribly mistaken if you believe ours is. We can’t keep inflicting this kind of ‘self-ownage’ and expect to keep on ticking.
I have accepted that reality. I was hoping someone could provide an answer that didn’t depend on circular logic and realpolitik, but no one can provide something that doesn’t exist.
Being that this is the pit, please don’t take this the wrong way, but what the fuck are you telling ME this for? I’ve never said anything different or suggested that Trump was in any way good for America. Seriously, did you mistake me for someone else? All those points you addressed just now? Tell them to someone who you know thinks differently. 
I don’t mean to be over the top, what what the fuck is wrong with the reading comprehension around here lately?
Why did you kill that busload of kitten-petting toddlers? You admitted to it, after all.
If it helps, I think your points are valid. This country has survived many idiot presidents, many power-hungry politicians, and much mistreatment of minorities. I think it will survive this current wave of fearmongering of happily ill-educated white people and its backlash against progress. As a country, we’ve (kinda) survived the institutional allowance of slavery, segregation, a civil war, decades of ruling by white supremacists, vehemently hateful “religious” evangelicals, and more than a few idiotic presidents. I firmly believe it’s a two step forwards, one step back kinda of thing in the US. Where progress is made for awhile (civil rights for homosexuals, hate crimes, etc.) until white people get scared and demand to remain incredibly stupid and there is a backlash.
What it takes, though is good, thoughtful people to realize when they shouldn’t support that kind of hatred and backlash. Personally, I think/hope there are enough intelligent, moral self-identifying Republicans who aren’t willing to support the kind of hatred and fear we’ve seen from this administration that Trump won’t get re-elected.
I think/hope that, but it is by no means a sure thing. Looking at the leadership of the Republicans, it is hard to conclude any fucking one of them is willing to put the country before their party. So it’s up to the voters.
I wish I had more faith than I actually do, though.
I don’t view conservatism as an “existential threat” at all. But I DO view the CURRENT ADMINISTRATION as an existential threat to me and mine because of how often they (Trump and his followers) have stood up over the past four years a declared that people like myself - either of my background, my beliefs, or my practices - are evil, not American, and not worthy of being here. THAT is the existential threat to me and mine. It’s not a matter of differing beliefs, it’s the belief that if you are different you don’t belong in this country. If you aren’t them you are not American. THAT is the problem.