we have a Right To your Life

The BBQ Pit
1

Something that apparently scares certain lawmakers and other busybodies regarding the Schiavo affair, is that large numbers of people are now obtaining living wills so that they can increase their odds of dying on their own terms, with some shreds of dignity.

An Ohio legislator and the state’s “Right To Life” organization are protesting that the readily available and downloadable living wills (including the one I completed and had notarized last weekend) aren’t “neutral” enough. From the Columbus Dispatch article (available on free registration at the paper’s website):

*"“It does concern me,” said state Rep. Keith Farber, R-Celina, an anti-abortion lawmaker who’s considering proposals to clarify provisions of Ohio’s 1991 living-will law. He said he plans to ask the Ohio State Bar Association, Ohio State Medical Association and other groups that collaborated on the form to look at it again.

“The original presumption was, you’re going to get life-sustaining care unless you indicate otherwise,” Farber said. “Now that may not be a correct presumption.”

The five-page State of Ohio Living Will Declaration begins with the statement that its purpose is “to document your wish that life-sustaining treatment . . . be withheld or withdrawn.” It continues: “I voluntarily declare my wish that my dying not be artificially prolonged.”

Although it’s not an official document, it was created to comply with the state law, representatives of the bar and medical associations said…
The forms are in high demand because of Schiavo’s case…
The National Right to Life Committee and the American Life League contend that doctors pressure families to stop treatment. Their living-will forms approach the issue from the life-sustaining side."*

Apparently Farber, and “We Have A Right To Your Life” hope we will miss out on the fact that doing pretty much everything to sustain life is the DEFAULT POSITION when you’re in the hospital, and that the whole point of living wills is to try to AVOID doing everything in hopeless cases. “Neutrality” in a living will is an inane construct.

It apparently drives certain people completely batshit that they can’t control every facet of our lives, down to the very end.

I will contact this legislator to see if he’s working equally hard to improve Medicaid funding, to finance all of this “life-sustaining treatment”. Don’t hold your breath waiting for the answer.

2

I don’t think that’s it. They don’t mind that they can’t control you, they just want you to live exactly as they do.

Oh, wait…

3

That’s the elephant everybody on that side of the issue has been studiously ignoring.

4

When their time comes, I hope it’s long, painful, disgusting, and smells very bad besides. I also hope they are fully cognizant so they can “enjoy” every moment of it, victims of their own interference and whatever laws they are inventing.

5

There is a 600 lb gorilla riding that elephant.

6

I wonder if forcing life-sustaining treatment on people means that if a woman must have an emergency, late-term abortion because her life depends on it, she’ll be forced to, even if she says she doesn’t want it?

7

Probably not. They’ll probably either let her and the baby both die (God’s judgement), or put both in full life support forever (sanctity of life). Either way, you’re doomed. Either way, your wishes will be totally ignored.

8

But but but but but…

They know what’s best!

They know what’s right for us, no matter what we think!

God told them so!

Why do you hate God?

:rolleyes:

9

It’s a reciprocity thing. He started it…

10

[Leathal Weapon]
“God hates me, that’s what it is.”
“Hate him back. Works for me.”
[/LW]

11

It shows just how sick you have to be before the politicians do anything about your health care.

12

The Terri Schiavo case demonstrates that sometimes feeding tubes are removed despite the person not leaving indisputable proof that’s what they want (my understanding is that it was just her husband’s word against her parents’ word as to what she wanted)…so it doesn’t seem unreasonable to me for someone to want to make it explicit that they desire that kind of treatment just to feel secure that there won’t be any mistake.
As for the point of a living will, I think the point is simply to make sure that your wishes are followed, regardless of whether that means you want every possible heroic measure or nothing done.
I have no problem with people wanting to refuse treatment at the end of life and spelling that out in a document, but I also see nothing wrong with someone wanting to make sure that it’s understood that they want every possible treatment. From my perspective, I do think a living will should indeed be neutral.

13

After the thousands of posts on this subject on this board, and the countless hours of coverage on every media outlet that have reported that the court reached a decision on Terri’s wishes based on not only Michael Schiavo’s recollection, but also that of two other witnesses over seven separate conversations, I can only conclude that you are willfully ignorant about any facts in this case. Please don’t post on this subject any longer. I mean it. You are too stupid to play here. Go away.

14

Why am I reminded of the old video game Gauntlet, with it’s endlessly running Monster Generators?

There was more than merely Michael Schiavo’s testimony for her wishes, or TWENTY judges wouldn’t have decided in Terri’s favor over her parents’.

There are at LEAST twenty threads on this right now. Read a few before you bring your Fox-News-misinformed opinions into this one. Thanks.

15

No, a living will should not be neutral! A living will should clearly state what level of care, if any, the person wants to receive. Living will forms available online can run from one extreme to the other, just pick the one that’s right for you. Don’t try and make them all fall into some mythical neutral category.

As pointed out earlier in the thread, the default care level in most places is “everything possible” so if that’s what you want then you don’t need a living will. Why isn’t there some call for a “neutral” category of care?

16

Here is the living will format that the “We Have A Right To Your Life” people are objecting to.

The packet of information openly discusses end-of-life issues and notes that people who want more aggressive treatment should consider preparing alternate instructions.
The sponsoring organizations are filling a widely expressed need, by making it possible for those who don’t automatically want “everything” done in a terminal situation to readily document their wishes. That’s the whole point of a living will.

Opponents of choice in this matter apparently think that if they gut the existing form of the living will, people will forget their deep-seated concerns about expense, family trauma and loss of dignity, and sign whatever “neutralized” document is readily available to them.

The sheer, repellent gall is amazing.

17

Just crushing and stomping everything it sees…

:smiley:

None of this surprises me. Anyone want to bet on how long it takes before Living Wills as we know them are either illegal or effectively nullified?

18

“I want to be plugged in” would work well in a living will.

“I want the plug pulled” would work well in a living will.

“I don’t care one way or the other, but I want my attorney Biff rather than evil aunt Frieda to have full discretion in deciding” would work well in a living will.

“I want to be neutral, so I won’t say if I want to be plugged in or if I want the plug pulled, and I won’t say if I want my attorney to have unfettered discretion or only limited discretion” is rubbish that only a fool would propose.

19

That elephant with that gorilla will be the reason all this goes no where. Republicans need big business as much as they need religious conservatives, and insurance companies are NOT interested in endless expenses to keep people hooked up on expensive life support systems. Other big businesses are trying to keep the ever rising cost of health care reasonable for themselves and their employees.

Well, that, and 80% of Americans thinking they should be able to pull the plug.

20

Guys, guys . . . . be nice.

I can understand why people wouldn’t want to sift through those threads. I sure as shit haven’t read all of them-- the sheer number is daunting, as is the endless repetition.