We want house price inflation back? Still? After what just happened?

The “media*” still seem to be looking at falling house prices as a sign that the whole economy is trashed and getting worse. Isn’t irrational property inflation and people effectively gambling that houses would keep going “up in value” (which is clearly nuts) what caused the whole mess in the first place? And we’re supposed to want this situation back?

Why are they all so keen to see prices rising so soon? Why can’t they report the situation in a more rounded way. House prices were and are too fracking high what else is supposed to happen?

The only sense I have heard spoken about house prices was by a comedian (forgot his name, sorry) on Radio 4’s Now Show:

Who’s with me?

  • by which I mean Radio 4, I supposed there are other sources of news but I expect they’re even less rational.

Some people HAVE to sell their houses, HAVE to move, or HAVE to divest. Others are employed in the real estate or building sectors of the economy. While a return to the bubble would be very nice for these folks, no one is expecting that. People do want an improvement from the current situation, in which everyone is so afraid to buy property, build a house, or make a loan that those relying on that economic activity are needlessly hurting.

Remember, when the bubble popped, things didn’t go back to “normal” – they got really, really bad. Willingness to throw some money at the future encourages others to do the same.

Home prices need to match income levels of the population they serve in some proportion. Housing prices rose way faster than income levels which really shouldn’t have happened. If people can’t afford inflated prices the prices come back down to realistic levels. The inflated prices exsisted because banks were finding creative ways to allow people to afford these houses. Subprime, teaser rates, etc. Stupid stupid practices that got everyone into this mess.
Housing prices will never inflate back to what they were unless dangerous lending practices start up again (highly unlikely), or wages increase across the board (also highly unlikely).

A very large chunk of the US economy is tied into housing. (Can’t recall the exact number) So that’s why so many people are worried about house prices.

Rising house prices mean bigger profits for the real estate industry.

Traditional media depend heavily on this industry for advertising revenue and have pretty well given up all pretense of objectivity. They will piss off these advertisers if they give even a hint that housing prices might fall and therefore NOW is not the time to buy.

So they don’t report that. They report what they are told. (Houses always go up in value. Buy! Buy now! There has never been a better time.)

It’s marketing, not journalism.

It’s disingenuous to write the whole post about “house inflation”, let alone “irrational property inflation”. Economists and politicians and people on TV are talking about the values for homes improving and the real estate market in general improving. Nobody is advocating irrational inflation of home prices.

If you think they’re one in the same, that’s a valid position to take. But don`t write as if they’re obviously identical and that anyone is actually advocating irrationally high home prices when they just want the market to improve.

Of course they will, but it will take ten years or more to recover to what they were in some cases (in others not so much - depends on how much the market dropped), but they will gain value back much slower than they lost value.

Inflation is coming back…maybe sooner than you think! Only this time, the dollar will be dumped (as world currency), so there won’t be any recovery. I’m looking to buy real estate, because when the Obama hyperinflation gets going, I will own it for nothing.

House prices will only rise when there is cheap enough finance to allow it to happen.

One problem is the psychology of the UK public - we seem to have some sort of ‘Englishmans Castle’ type of thing going on, when historically this has not been actually true for almost our entire national history - not for the working masses anyway. This attitude is simply a construct of the last 40 years, eagerly fed by politicians with tax breaks on interest repayments and the nasty politics of envy which pushed out to us especially over the last two political regimes.How we all lapped it up too!

Who puts out these stories that house price decline is bad? Ever wondered?

Almost every month certain ‘market leaders’ in the home finance industry tell us either hourse prices are rising, or recovery is around the corner - they consistantly tell us everything is fine, or will soon be fine. Halifax bank, Abbey National Bank are the main culprits. Yet both these ultra major players in the UK mortage market overstreched themselves and have recently changed hands and have had to be bailed out.

Houses can only cost us the amount of finance we can raise, and at one time you could only borrow 2.5 times your income - not surprisingly house prices were static. With a low inflation economy the interest repayments declined, so these organisations ramped up the gearing, so you could borrow 4 or five times your income.

What actually happened is that house prices went up, as did land prices etc The actual effect was that you borrowed more money, but ended up with the same house, or less than you would have done, but now you owe more money out on it.

In the UK, houses around where I am are supposed to be around £170k, but these are very modest homes - my income is not too bad, and I know of nobody at all who could finance that sort of loan across two incomes. I certainly could not.

Far too much of our economy is dead, it is tied up with repayments and not in the purchase of goods and services, house finance has reduced disposable incomes but the increased value of a house can only be realised upon downsizing, or death and inheritance - our Tory party keeps complaining about the low ceiling on inheritance tax which is based upon values of estates including the house - this is usually the largest asset, however if house prices were significantly lower, this would not be anything like as much of an issue.

If we had a proper and prudent system of lending, house prices would fall a lot further, but then the large financial institutions that make large contributions to various political parties would not make as much profit - that irresponsible greedy lending has bitten them in the arse, along with lots of trapped homeowners who were just trying to make their way in life.

With the decline in Western economies of long term secure well paid employment, longer term financial products are inevitably more risky - this is just one effect of globalisation, where everything is cheaper but no-one benefits at the consumer level, we all pay somehow such as less long term security, fewer well paid low skill jobs leading to higher unemployment in the rust belt, its a fact that around some of the former mining villages around where I live are now crime ridden drug havens.

How do we improve it? We need to view our homes as somewhere to live. The value tied up in our homes is a pointless waste of money that the inhabitants cannot realise except by scandalously poor financial products which claim to ‘unlock the value in your property’ but in reality are just a rip-off.

The multipliers given to potential homebuyers need to drop dramatically, yes the value of you house falls, but then so does the cost of the next house you need to buy.

Somehow people think there is a free lunch, they can sell their house for the supposed full value, but exploit the market of the declining value of other people houses for sale. People are greedy and dumb - pretty much sums up the whole housing industry, from the landowner, the builder, the fiancier right through to the hiomeowner who thinks a house is an investment.

I’d vote for you :slight_smile:

Do you have any evidence for any of that, for a change?

There are several ways of evaluating “value”. What it will get on the open market at a particular time is called “market value”. “Replacement value” is what it would cost to replace one that has, in the case of a house, burned down.

Thanks for that, and everything else you said. House prices will rise to what the market can bear. They moved the goalposts - by letting people lie about their income, and other things. Houses in the England (in the south at least) are basically unaffordable now. My own house went up in “value” by about £100k in the five years since I bought it. My salary has effecitvely stalled in that time, I wouldn’t be able to afford it now. This is not a sane/sustainable state for an ecomomy.

Fuzzy DunlopI’m not trying to make a political point, I’m just pissed off that seeminigly, the major measure of how the economy is doing, according to mass media reporting is still judged by the very thing that caused the problem in the first place. That and the rate people buying (or not) of new cars.

Can’t we now say that constant house inflation is not a good thing?

I think the same chap (on the Now Show) said maybe we should regard the fact that people are buying less is that We’ve got enough stuff

Gotta go. Sorry for any typos.

But a constant, steady rise in housing prices isn’t a bad thing. I think the problem is that you see an issue caused by too much of something and have concluded that that thing is always bad.

Are you offended that people are reporting increases in the stock market indices as a good thing too? If not, what’s the functional difference?

The functional difference is that there’s generally something backing up an increase in a share’s price. It might cost more, but you’re also getting more. The same is not true of inflation.

I wasn’t suggesting it was a political point you were making; I’m not even sure what that would be like. I was merely pointing out that it is inflammatory to insist experts are calling for a return of over-exuberant price inflation when in reality people are looking for recovery in the housing market.

For what it’s worth, people are looking for signs of recovery in the very thing that caused the problem in the first place because they will be a good indication the problem with the economy is on the mend. You can’t just completely ignore the source of the problem. What would a recovery be without the original problems recovering too?

I basically agree. Back during the boom, there were a lot of young families who were shut out from getting a decent house at a reasonable price. Due to the shenanigans of all the yahoos and speculators taking out liar loans, suicide loans, and other nonsense.