Weekly Comic Book Thread 5/5/2005

Cinco de Mayo!

We get a bunch of good stuff this week.

We also get Shining Knight #2. Meh. Still no mention of the real Sir Justin. Not loving the art. Plot’s moving now, though. Well, towards the end of the issue. I wonder if the man on the bench is someone we should know…

I got:

Villains United #1. AWESOME. Great opening to what will hopefully be a worthy replacement for Sleeper–a twisted, complex story about bad people doing horrible things to each other. I’m baffled by some of Gail Simone’s character choices, especially how after James Robinson made the original Golden Age Ragdoll so dangerous and scary again in Starman, it looks like Gail introduced a new Ragdoll. And why there’s a generic Parademon in the “Secret Six” instead of another cool, underused villain in need of a revamp is beyond me, but I trust Gail to deliver the goods. Has Scandal been used or seen before, or is she all-new? I dig Calculator (the evil Oracle), Deathstroke, Deadshot, and this cool new Catman, so I’m on board for this miniseries all the way.

Ragman #1-8. Got this 1991-92 miniseries by Keith Giffen, Robert Loren Fleming, and terrific '80s artist Pat Broderick at a discount, and it seemed fitting now that Ragman is making a big comeback in Day of Judgment. Haven’t read it yet, though.

Totems. A Vertigo “V2K” original graphic novel from a few years back, it throws together John Constantine, Swamp Thing, Animal Man, Black Orchid, Shade the Changing Man, and Cliff “Robotman” Steele. How bad can it be?

Catwoman #21. A Brubaker/Stewart issue I missed along the way, marked down below cover price. Can’t go wrong with that!

Want that, so bad. ;_;

Y: The Last Man (the last page): Lucky, lucky, LUCKY Yorick!

Concrete: The Human Dilemma: I expected (and wanted) a little more shock and amazement to you-know-what. Even Concrete’s reaction to it, and also to the shooting, took place off-stage.

Haven’t read Shining Knight yet.

Hey, if you like, I can probably assemble another close-to-complete run for you from the bins at my shop. I’m sure they had multiple copies of #1-6, just no more #7 or 8. E-mail me at saxman2@hotmail.com if you want. We can trade something, or I’d just sell them to you for really cheap. They also had the follow-up miniseries from 1993, Ragman: Cry For Dawn (or something to that effect), if you want that.

Hmm…I’ll have to wait a couple weeks to see if it’s in my budget. I don’t think trading is in the cards. If you think they’ll still be around then, what with Ragman’s renewed spotlight in DoV, I’ll get back to you.

I’m getting really pissed off at my local comics emporium. I missed out on this one for the same reason I missed Day of Vengeance #1 last week: they hadn’t ordered enough copies and sold out before I got off work. Aargh! On top of that, they also didn’t get in Doom Patrol #12 (of course, I’m only reading DP for old times’ sake anyway). I had a feeling that having issues two weeks in a row would be a problem.

I did snag Shining Knight #2 and Lex Luthor #3, so the trip wasn’t a total loss.

GLA #2 (of 4): Why do I love this one so much when I’m so indifferent to the similarly-toned ICBINTJL over in JLA Classified (and I’d actually seen the JLA guys before)? I think it’s because these guys are actually trying (and largely failing) to act like Superheroes, and the JLA are just doing a sitcom in spandex. Also, the GLA has monkey Joe. Can’t forget Monkey Joe. Anyway, it had me in stitches.

[spoiler] Swordsman: I am NOT Hawkeye!
Flatman: But I read on the Internet that–


Batroc: Incroyable! How can zis be? I have been outleaped! [/spoiler]

Shining Knight #2: An improvement over last issue, I think. Have to admit, I shivered during the “Not while one knight of camelot endures” bit. That sold me on the character.

Lex Luthor #3: Um, why is Batman fighting Superman? They haven’t always been bestest buddies post-crisis (although they are now) but Batman never randomly picked fights with him either. I think we’ve already got the point already that Lex doesn’t like Superman. At all. No need to do a Ayn Rand impression over the action. I’m not picking up the next two issues. My decision was made when I read a fight between Superman and Batman, and was bored!

Villains United #1: Not what I expected. Still very, very cool. I’m disappointed that Deadshot’s back to his classic costume, I liked the one from the recent mini, I hope they at least mention his daughter. But if not, oh well. I’m also disappointed in the casual killing in this issue (that is, who was killed, not who did the killinga nd why). I’m really enjoying this lot of villains. I’m also wondering if Scandal is new. So folks, who do we think Mockingbird is? Oracle? Waller? Max Lord? Batman? The Calculator?

Y #33: Feeling better about the relationships, but here’s a question: Why would anyone ship heroin *from * America to the Pacific region? Shouldn’t it be the otehr way around?

Excellent point; that didn’t even cross my mind (my mind was preoccupied by all the hot girl-on-girl or girl-on-Yorick action. But maybe no one’s left in Asia who knows how to refine poppies into opiates, so existing stockpiles in the U.S. are being shipped back?

More on the disappointing **Shining Knight ** #2 - Sir Justin (the False) is said to have spent 10,000 years in Castle Revolving. So, if we take that figure as accurate, the DCU has two Camelots. Separated by 9,000 years. Even if not, the DCU seems to have two Camelots now. Meanwhile, over in Blood of the Demon, we get to see the actual DCU Camelot in flashback as Batman researches the Demon’s history.

So what this means is that John Byrne is paying better attention to continuity than Grant Morrison.

Just try and wrap your brains around THAT one.

Grant seems to be paying lip service to continuity in a few of the books (SS #0, Zatanna, arguably Guardian) while flagrantly ignoring it in the others. (Klarion, Shining Knight)

Picked up **GI Joe Reloaded ** - the Duke as traitor thing is wearing on my nerves, but I do like it when a plan comes together. Good read.

Picked up the second Sin City TPB - Dame to Kill For, after reading and enjoying the first. I really don’t care for Miller’s art, but he can tell a good Noir story when he wants to.

Yes, but does it matter? I mean, the story’s solid, the characters are strong. I can’t really care if this story doesn’ complement another’s version of a mthic archetype, especially since the stories arent directly linked. The difference between Byrne’s usual antics and Morrison is that Byrne breaks other people’s toys while Morrison makes new toys that kinda look like the old ones. Besides, did Demon’s camelot ever really jibe with old-Justin’s? It certainly wasn’t meant to. Think of this as a reboot, like Waid’s Legion.

I’m much more worried by subtler but deeper continuity breaks like in Lex Luthor, where Superman and Batman fight for no apparent reason. Yes, they might have, but they never would. To say they would ignores alot of what we know about both characters.

Demon’s Camelot did not contradict Sir Justin’s in any way I can recollect.

More a character inconsistency than a Continuity break; I consider that less of a problem because it does less to impair my suspension of disbelief.

An epiphany just hit me, like a ton of bricks.

I think I just realized why Supergirl’s abilities are different than /superior to Superman’s.

To wit :

She may be stronger;
She’s faster;
She’s immune to synthetic Kryptonite;
She seems to have extra perceptive capacities that let her pick up on Calculator’s surveillance.

I think she’s the pre-Crisis Supergirl.

Think about it - we’ve got a Crisis related tie-in event coming up that promises to mess with space and time. Also, Power Girl’s twitchiness as the JSA passed 1985 coming back to the present would possibly tie in.

Fair enough. How about Aquaman’s and Superman’s (Lori Lemaris’ to be precise) Atlantis? I’m sure someone else (Wonder Woman, perhaps?) also had an Atlantis reference that didn’t match either cleanly as well. I know the different visions have since been reconciled, but when they were written, they didn’t need to be mutually consistant. A shared continuity is good, but not strictly necessary, IMHO.

Ah ha! That’s the root of our disagreement then. I can ignore and handwave away variations in details of setting and history, or accept totally new characters that take the basics from an older version to build an entirely new story, but some basics of character interactions are sacrosanct. Having Batman act in a way that Batman would never do (like get in a fight with Superman for no reason) is far more damaging to my suspension of disbelief than if Commissioner Gordon were to suddenly and inexplicably reappear in Gotham again, for instance.

I’m not saying my priorities are better than yours, but there they are.

Ooh! That’d be great! Especially if Superman got a matching upgrade come Infinite Crisis.

May 5, 2005:

The Will to Power.

Brian Azzarello really outdid himself in this month’s issue (#3) of Lex Luthor Man of Steel which features some of his best writing yet, all set in the context of a simple business meeting with Bruce Wayne. His Lex Luthor’s “no excuses” personal philosophy and his passion for human potential, it all rings true. This was the kind of big business drama I’d hoped to see in Casey’s Wildcats version 3.0. (The surprising thing is the way Azzarello’s Wayne falls short of the mark, compared to Luthor’s honesty and intensity.) A friend argued that the depicted fight between Batman and Superman distracted too much from the Wayne and Luthor’s faustian dialogue. He felt the reader would be left wondering why Batman and Superman were fighting, a conflict that could only fit into continuity if this story took place in the period when Superman was at odds with Batman - as when John Byrne revamp of the Man of Steel in the late 70’s). I felt it didn’t matter. The fight may well have been a storytelling contrivance, but it didn’t feel forced to me, and it’s essential to the dramatic impact of this episode. (And it works really, really well.) I’ve no problem looking upon this miniseries as standing outside continuity, like an Elseworlds tale. Give of Lex Luthor Man of Steel a try. It stands up there with Azzarello’s best 100 Bullets and Hellblazer stories, and Lee Bermejo’s renderings are simply amazing. This is the best work I’ve seen from both men yet. (Without question the best book of the week.)

I’ve high hopes for Simone and Eaglesham’s Villains United. Here we get a pretty good idea what motivates the individual members of the Secret Six. I’m hoping that we soon learn more the motivations of the “big guns” of the “Secret Society of Supervillains”: Luthor, Talia and Black Adam. Certainly they must have bigger goals than just founding a mutual aid society against the threat of a JLA-administered frontal lobotomy, goals that bring them into conflict within the core group, as well as against the superhero community without. (I guess what I’m hoping for is a much more sophisticated version of Marvel Supervillain Team Up, something with the complexity and depth of Waid’s Legion.)

In JLA Elite #11, Manchester/Vera Black’s senseless destruction of London (reminescent of similar scenes in the Authority and Miracleman) forms the backdrop to an ensemble drama that’s nearing it’s climax. It’s pretty exciting overall, and I didn’t get the feeling that things were being rushed, something I couldn’t avoid thinking in some of the previous issues. (Simone manages this kind of fast moving story well in Birds of Prey, but here I found myself occasionally wishing for an extra few panels to help set the stage.) However, this issue raises two big questions, which kept bugging me while I was reading: Why did Menagerie set up Coldcast?”, and more importantly, “Why will the fallen succeed where the pure fail?” I’m sure Kelly will provide answers next issue, but I fear things might get far too “compressed” to really savor, and that would be a shame ‘cause Kelly’s set up some interesting relationships between members of his large cast. His Manitou Raven is a great creation (I wish we could see more of him) and there are great scenes between Kasumi and Coldcast; and between Ollie and Dawn. Assuming Coldcast and Dawn survive the next issue, I would definitely pick up other stories featuring either pair in Batgirl or Green Arrow. It would be a shame if other writers neglected to build on what Kelly establishes here.

In contrast, the fourth issue of Palmiotti, Grey and Santacruz’ Twilight Experiment is almost perfectly paced. Two reluctant (and psychologically, very sympathetic) young meta-humans (they aren’t heroes yet), Rene and Michael are faced with the worst threat imaginable: a nightmare version of Black Adam, so convinced of the righteousness of his cause, that he’d barely bat an eyelash at the death of millions. Yet the noble aspects of the villains plan are undeniable, lending him a much more satisfactory motivation than Vera Black in Kelly’s JLA Elite. (London must die because human beings s_ck isn’t much of a motivation). I was half expecting the last scene to end with a slap, but I couldn’t deny, that there’s nothing more honest than complementary neurotic problems meeting and meshing, if only for the moment. Looking forward to next issues big battle. (I’m almost hoping our heroes lose, and things turn out for the best anyway. That would be a great inversion of the readers expectations. Second Best book of the Week.)

Punk

Compared to Palmiotti and Gray’s resentful, resigned Rene and Michael, Ellis, the hunted, off-balance protagonist of Waid and Silvestri’s Hunter Killer # 0-2, comes off as a bit of a spoiled, whiney brat. Under attack by meta-humans, and mysterious government spec-ops troops, Ellis’ parents sacrifice themselves in a bid for his freedom, and all he can do is scream for everyone to stop and give him time to adjust. I found myself wanting to slap him, something accentuated by the fact that Silvestri renders him as such a buff, good-looking young man – a choice that somehow makes it very hard for this reader to cut the kid a break and try to sympathize with him. (It might have been a good idea if they’d chosen to depict Ellis as looking more like a normal teenager, like Bobby Drake in Millar & Kubert’s run on Ultimate X-Men.) As it is, everyone looks buff and beautiful, and the lack of variety in character design works against the visual interest of the story. I will concede that the woman spec-ops commander and the rogue meta-human Wolf, look to be promising supporting characters. I just hope Waid does something soon to make Ellis more sympathetic: as it stands I just want to kick the kid in the butt, adolescent angst and all.

Lighter Fare

It’s easy to dismiss Frank Cho’s Shanna the She Devil as a simple exercise in “good girl” pin up art, but I gotta’ tell ya’, this is the best, well balanced, action adventure/survival story I’ve read since Thomas and Buscema’s Tarzan title of the late 80’s/early 90’s. Shanna’s rematch with the T-Rex in this week’s issue, #4, recalled the great extended fight scenes Buscema laid out between Tarzan and great apes or a pride of lions (New Avengers #5 (set in the Savage Land) could have used some of this “jungle action”). Slott and Pelletier’s Great Lakes Avengers #2 was a lot of fun: I loved the way Slott used Squirrel Girl, the Grasshopper and Moon Knight to parody common heroic archetypes like plucky Kitty Pryde-like heroines, Peter Parker-like wisecracking young men, and dark knight-ish, arrogant vigilantes. However intense, the other titles I picked up this week, GLA and Shanna made for welcome breaks from all the grim and gritty super-villain action this week. Variety isn’t just the spice of life, it’s essential.

Absolute Planetary - I’m falling in love with this series all over again, courtesy of those luscious oversize pages and an opportunity to read the first year in one convenient sitting. The memory of how much I liked certain issues, particularly the “Ghost Cop”, had faded over time. A shame I’ll probably have to wait years for another Absolute volume, but I’m sure it will be worth it.

Continuing the Warren Ellis love, I read the relaunched Invincible Iron Man 1 - 3, without enduring what I’m told is a seemingly interminable wait between issues. If anyone had told me a year ago I’d be reading and enjoying an Iron Man title, I would have laughed long and hard. If they’d told me it would be one of the few superhero titles that truly evokes a sense of wonder in my hardened, cynical brain, I’d have backed away slowly and sent for the men with the butterfly nets. Adi Granov’s art in the action sequences is so breathtaking, so full of excitement and believability, and Ellis’ grounding of Iron Man into something more realistic is so convincing, that I can comofrtably ignore the less impressive aspects. All the usual Warren Ellisisms are present - the drug-soaked shaman, body modification, characters who speak like each other and like Warren Ellis - but for the most part in a more muted form. I’m still waiting for a smoking blonde to make an appearance, though.

A back-to-back, in order reading of the recent Question miniseries, Devil’s in the Details, continued my run of good comics fortune. My previous knowledge of the character consisted of “Steve Ditko created him; Rorschach’s based on him”, which proved to be no barrier to reading the title. If anything, it was probably an advantage, because it saved me from questions like “Where did those more than a little Jack Hawsmoor-meets-The Doctor powers come from, anyway?” I particularly enjoyed writer Rick Veitch’s method of circumventing Superman’s near omnipotency to tell a story of a crime syndicate operating in Metropolis. Good stuff all around. Why DC moved it from Wildstorm - which I’m told was its original destination - to the DCU, I’ll probably never understand.

A recent sale at what’s destined to become my new LCS (despite not being local, the staff are a treat and worth the extra drive time) enabled me to pick up a big run of the just ended Human Target series. I loved the first Milligan miniseries, was indifferent to Final Cut , thought the #1 of the relaunched ongoing was a disaster - even though I had read Final Cut I struggled to follow it, and it must have been incomprehensible to someone who hadn’t - and that the first trade was just OK. These issues, which pick up after the first TPB and run almost to the end, convinced me that yes, there is a reason Vertigo people are sad it was axed. Peter Milligan doing stories about the nature of identity can be very good, and although none of these matched the original mini, they were worthy reads and I’m sad it’s gone.

Sleeper 2.11 was one of the better entries in this uneven season. After reading his autobiographical works An Accidental Death and A Complete Lowlife, I’m quite sure I don’t want to know any more reasons why Ed Brubaker is so good at understanding self-destructive and reprehensible people, but he certainly does it well. I predicted by whom one of these characters would die as early as issue 2; the other I absolutely should have seen coming but didn’t. I’m curious as to how all the character arcs will be tied up in the series’ final issue next month, but I can hardly wait.

The latest issue of Rex Mundi finally frustrated me enough to drop the series entirely, despite my having been one of its biggest supporters out of the gate. I think doing a Holy Blood, Holy Grail/Da Vinci Code type of thriller in an alternate reality Paris where the HRE never fell was a great idea, but perhaps comics were not the right medium for it. Perhaps it’s just the creators’ inexperience. Whatever the cause, it’s now so heavily footnoted (discussing characters who haven’t appeared since issue #0), so full of characters standing around discussing the plot, and published on such an erratic schedule that no matter how much promise it holds, I can’t in good conscience stay with it.

I know Trigger is acquiring quite a negative reputation, and its early demise with issue 8 doesn’t sound promising, but after reading 1 - 3 I don’t see why. I can understand why the vaguely puprle noirish dialogue might grate on some, but unless the plot steers right into the cliches it’s headed for, this wasn’t a bad little paranoid “Big Brother with a powerful corporation” story. Then again, maybe it did dive into those cliches; from this vantage point, it looks like the readers were being set up to think they knew where the story was going, only to have the rug pulled out from underneith them.

Running out of time and energy, so all I’ll say about The Omac Project #1 is that it’s so new-reader unfriendly it’s not worth my time. That, and I can’t bear any more Hellfire Club flashbacks. The Seven Soldiers issue of Zatanna left me feeling indifferent, and while I found the Seven Soldiers Manhatten Guardian issue more entertaining, it wasn’t so engaging that I’ll continue with it.

Great example. And eventually, someone at DC caught on, said ‘Whoa!’ and they fixed it. Plausibly, I might add. There are two differences with what Morrison’s doing with Camelot, from the Atlantis situation.

One, Morrison knows better. Two, while Atlantis is a real-world Myth, the specific personages thereof in the DCU are defined by DC, and don’t correspond with one another. Meaning, the existence of Arthur Curry in no way contradicts or makes less likely the existence of Arion. But with the Camelot situation - you’ve got the classic roster of the Knights, well-defined - and two Sir Justins.

So, a glorious kingdom ruled by Arthur, with his knights Galahad, Lancelot, Gawain, etc., happened twice. Merlin the Magician - happened twice. Sir Justin and his Magnificent Flying Steed - happened twice.

It’s like suddenly declaring Earth-2 Superman in continuity for the post-Crisis DCU and leaving in the current Superman too. Two planet Kryptons, Kal-L and Kal-El, Daily Star and Daily Planet.

A character inconsistency is, to me, just waiting for its explanation. It’s interesting when Batman attacks Superman out of the blue, you want to know why. If the writer doesn’t then tell you, then it’s bad writing.

Continuity can be used the same way - provided there’s a resolution - but continuity issues are usually stickier to resolve than character inconsistencies. (“Oh, he was mind-controlled.” vs. “Your older self from the future time-travelled back to the past, and then used his mental powers to make everyone forget he was there, and then the Phantom Stranger showed up, and was all like “I’m totally spooky!” and we were all like scared and stuff…”)

Morrison may yet resolve it. But with two issues left, I’m not betting on it. God forbid he should let the DC consensus reality impede his storytelling for six panels.

I agree!

Oh, wait, you were being sarcastic. :wink:

I think the solution is just to stop buying it, Candid. I don’t care to what extent it’s in continuity or not, and I’m enjoying Seven Soldiers on that basis. If you can’t divorce the story from your concerns about continuity, you’re not going to enjoy the book. While your concern for continuity is clearly not one I share, there’s nothing wrong with either of us liking whatever we like and disliking anything we dislike.

However, there is something wrong with buying comics you don’t like, for whatever reason. Because when you buy comics you don’t like, it makes it harder for me to get good comics.

–Cliffy

How?

And now, I can’t just stop buying it. I have collectoritis. If I start a series, it takes me a long time to shake loose of it. Plus I’d like to vote with my wallet to support the idea of third-tier characters in an epic collection of miniseries, even if the particular execution leaves something to be desired.

Besides, the writing isn’t bad (except for Manhattan Guardian), it’s the willful disregard for continuity behind it that irks me. Heck, file the serial numbers and names off the characters in Shining Knight, and its really good. Ditto Klarion.