Weightlifting question (curling)

[Stratocaster]

I lift weights twice a week. I hit back, shoulders, biceps, triceps, and legs once a week, chest twice a week. It’s all I can fit in.

I am 44 years old, 6’ 3", 225-230 pounds, and in reasonably good shape. My problem is my inflamed left elbow, which can “twinge” during many exercises, but seems to be most of a problem when I curl, and to a lesser degree when I bench.

Alternating dumbbell curls is difficult–I find I need to “cheat” a lot. For a while preacher curls with a curl bar (inside grip) seemed to be OK, but lately it’s really bad. I can’t come anywhere close to fully extended, because my elbow hurts. I feel my elbow on the entire rep. I feel like I have more than enough muscle, but the joint won’t permit me to hit the weight I want to.

For each muscle group, we do a few warm-up sets, then try to lift 4 heavy sets of 8 reps (or to failure), then 3 or 4 sets of 12 at something lighter, mixing things up. So, for bench, I might do the following: flat bench, 135 lbs (10 reps), 185 (8), 225 (8), 275 (7 or 8), 300 (3 to 6), 275 (5 to 7); incline dumbbells: 3 sets of 12 or 15 with 75 pound dumbbells (I need 90’s). Once a month or so I try to single out at the heaviest I can (somewhere between 325 and 350, on a really good day).

For the preachers, I was trying 4 sets of 8, starting at 85 or 90 and going up five pounds each set. I feel like I have enough muscle to do more, but the elbow doesn’t permit. Lately, I can’t even finish the 4th set.

I know if I go to a doctor, I will be advised to lift lighter weights (I realize I’m not setting any records, but I lift reasonably heavy). I just don’t want to do that. So, I have some questions:

[ul][li]Has anyone tried an effective non-prescription program for an inflamed elbow? I know resting it will help, but I want to avoid that.[/li][li]Is there a bicep routine you are aware of that hits the muscle hard without killing the elbow joint? Seems impossible, but I’ll ask just the same.[/li][li]Is there a machine of some sort that controls the range of motion to provide heavy bicep work without straining the elbow joint?[/li]Is there some sort of brace that could help?[/ul]Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Burrido]

Although I do not have a problem with my elbows, I do have tendinitis in my wrists. The only real solution is to get your elbow fixed right, i.e. see a doctor. I know how you feel. When my wrists started to bother me I didn’t want to stop lifting/go lighter. It only aggravated the problem until I was unable to zip up my own jacket. After seeing the doctor, I was out for 8 months. I was on Vioxx, Naproxen, and finally Nambutone. No lifting what so ever. Yes, it sucked. I lost all the mass that I had worked so hard for.
When I started again, I was working with 5 pound weights. I was so depressed. But it needed to be done. After 6 months, I’m back up to where I was and am actually stronger than before I stopped.
Take a week off and take some ibuprofen. Use RICE. Can’t curl, work the biceps indirectly with alot of Back excercises. I use a bar with and shoulder width underhand grip and lift up from my thighs to my waist for lower biceps sometimes. Kinda like a shrug/standing row, but just using my arms. Btw, I tried this and after 2 weeks, 12 Ibuprofen a day didn’t stop the pain and I was done for. Don’t kid yourself, the problem will only get worse, not better.

[CookingWithGas]

I have had various temporary joint problems in elbow & shoulder. I second Burrido’s advice:

@Burrido

Take a week off and take some ibuprofen.

I’d make it two weeks, at least from the exercises that cause pain. IANAD but I’ll tell you what my doctor told me. “I can write you a prescription for Ibuprofen, or you can just buy it over the counter and take twice the label dosage.” I have no idea what to take into account before saying you should do that, so please don’t take that as advice. But even the label dosage might help you.

Use RICE.

No idea what that is.

Don’t kid yourself, the problem will only get worse, not better.

You betcha.

[CookingWithGas]

Oh, yeah, the questions.

Has anyone tried an effective non-prescription program for an inflamed elbow? I know resting it will help, but I want to avoid that.

Got to rest, otherwise the best you can do with drugs is mask the problem. Also, use heat on it.

Is there a bicep routine you are aware of that hits the muscle hard without killing the elbow joint? Seems impossible, but I’ll ask just the same.

Muscle and joint work as a system. Can’t really separate that without cutting a tendon. :eek:

Is there a machine of some sort that controls the range of motion to provide heavy bicep work without straining the elbow joint?

See previous bullet.

Is there some sort of brace that could help?

I used an Ace bandage to support my elbow while bicycling, but I stopped curls and tricep extensions for a while. Continuing to lift will overwhelm the joint even wrapped

[Stratocaster]

Thanks for the replies. It’s a bummer…

[Dr_Paprika]

It sounds like an epicondyle injury. You can’t work the biceps without working the elbow. If you want this to get better, you will overcome your pride and cut down on your curling weight even though you do not wish to do so. Substitute an abdominal exercise for your bicep one for a couple weeks, then try the bicep curl at half the weight and see if it is still panful. Seeing your doctor would be a reasonable thing to do; ice, ibuprofen, rest, etc. are also wise. Wiser than taking Internet advice for this sort of problem, anyway.

[ultrafilter]

@Stratocaster

I lift weights twice a week. I hit back, shoulders, biceps, triceps, and legs once a week, chest twice a week. It’s all I can fit in.

Overemphasizing your chest–like you’re doing–can lead to all kinds of nasty problems, like, say, kyphosis. No fun. Lay off the arm work for a while and see if you can row or do chin-ups. No matter what your goals are, you’d be better served by deadlifting.

[Valgard]

@CookingWithGas

No idea what that is.

RICE stands for Rest, Ice, Compress, Elevate. It’s used for sprains and strains and is pretty self-explanatory.

I’ll second (third, fourth) everybody else’s advice, if it hurts, STOP. Go see your doctor and follow their advice. I gave myself some nasty tendonitis in my wrists about 7 years ago because I tried to “exercise through the pain”. I wish that I’d listened to my body because that would have been much better than cortisone injections, large amounts of ibuprofen and months of physical therapy, followed by YEARS of babying my wrists (I was in my 20s). If you think not working out for a few months sucks and is a blow to your pride, imagine how it’d feel to have to ask the supermarket bag boy for help putting the groceries in your trunk or not being able to pick up your kids or something, long term…

[jweb]

import jweb.IANAD.*;

sounds like a commercial I saw a few years ago, with a conversation between a patient and his doctor.

Doc: “What seems to be the problem?”
Patient: “It hurts when I do this” (does some strange motion with his arms)
…
…
Doc: “Then don’t do that”

Your body feels pain for a reason, and that reason is generally to tell you “Hey stupid, knock it off.”

[Carnac_the_Magnificent]

@ultrafilter

Overemphasizing your chest–like you’re doing–can lead to all kinds of nasty problems, like, say, kyphosis. No fun. Lay off the arm work for a while and see if you can row or do chin-ups. No matter what your goals are, you’d be better served by deadlifting.

**Ultrafilter,**you’ve long been a fountain of weighlifting knowledge, but I don’t understand your reference to “kyphosis,” a term that’s new to me.

I looked it up. One site says of it, “Kyphosis is the result of a disease or congenital problem. Kyphosis may occur in children, adolescents, or adults. Kyphosis occurring at birth is rare … Other causes of kyphosis include infection, inflammation, disk degeneration, osteoporosis of the vertebrae, endocrine diseases, arthritis, Paget’s disease, polio, compression fractures of the vertebrae, cancer, tuberculosis, or poor posture…”
OK, can you connect the dots? Do you consider working out the chest twice weekly too much? I thought the idea is to hit the weights THREE times a week. That’s what I’ve been doing the last year. I hit everything–from traps to calves–three times a week. I’ll also admit to knowing zero about weightlifting theory.

Please explain.

[YWalker]

@CookingWithGas

Got to rest, otherwise the best you can do with drugs is mask the problem. Also, use heat on it.

I agree with the first part of this, but not the last.

If you have inflammation, the body is already putting its own heat into there, and that is part of the problem. You do not want to add heat to this type of injury. Ice is more appropriate for an injury with inflammation.

[larsenmtl]

@Stratocaster

I can’t come anywhere close to fully extended, because my elbow hurts.

Might be a stupid question but you aren’t locking out your elbows are you?

[ultrafilter]

@Carnac the Magnificent!

I looked it up. One site says of it, “Kyphosis is the result of a disease or congenital problem. Kyphosis may occur in children, adolescents, or adults. Kyphosis occurring at birth is rare … Other causes of kyphosis include infection, inflammation, disk degeneration, osteoporosis of the vertebrae, endocrine diseases, arthritis, Paget’s disease, polio, compression fractures of the vertebrae, cancer, tuberculosis, or poor posture…”

Check This site:

The spine has three types of curves: [ul]
[li]Kyphotic, which typically refers to the outward curve of the thoracic spine (at the level of the ribs) [/li][li]Lordotic, which refers to the inward curve of the lumbar spine (just above the buttocks) [/li][li]Scoliotic, which is a sideways curvature of the spine and which is always abnormal [/ul][/li]A small degree of both kyphotic and lordotic curvature is normal. Exaggeration of the kyphotic curve is described as round shoulders or hunched shoulders (the medical term is Scheuermann’s disease). Exaggeration of the lordotic curve is often called swayback (the medical term is lordosis).

Basically, what happens is your chest gets tight/too strong relative to your back, and your scapula become rotated inwards, and your spine sticks out, and it’s bad.

OK, can you connect the dots? Do you consider working out the chest twice weekly too much? I thought the idea is to hit the weights THREE times a week. That’s what I’ve been doing the last year. I hit everything–from traps to calves–three times a week. I’ll also admit to knowing zero about weightlifting theory.

It’s not a question of how much chest work you do, but how much back work you do to balance it out. Most people don’t do enough back work, and always prioritize their chests–after all, those are the muscles they can see. It’s important to keep your back and chest balanced out so you don’t have upper back or shoulder problems.

The Q&D test is to stand neutral with your arms at your sides. Your palms should be facing each other through the area right between your quads and butt. The further back they point, and the further forward they are, the more you need to do some chest stretching and upper back work (primarily rows).

[ultrafilter]

Nuts.

[AskNott]

I just finished with an 8-session program with a personal trainer. I told him my goal was to learn how to work out without getting hurt. “On biceps curls,” he said, “never let your arm straighten out all the way.” He also told me, “If you can’t finish a set in good form (without cheating,) stop and use less weight.” Bad form causes injuries.

[Smeghead]

@Dr_Paprika

It sounds like an epicondyle injury. You can’t work the biceps without working the elbow. If you want this to get better, you will overcome your pride and cut down on your curling weight even though you do not wish to do so. Substitute an abdominal exercise for your bicep one for a couple weeks, then try the bicep curl at half the weight and see if it is still panful. Seeing your doctor would be a reasonable thing to do; ice, ibuprofen, rest, etc. are also wise. Wiser than taking Internet advice for this sort of problem, anyway.

Just thought this advice from an actual doctor was worth repeating.

[Stratocaster]

@ultrafilter

Overemphasizing your chest–like you’re doing–can lead to all kinds of nasty problems, like, say, kyphosis. No fun. Lay off the arm work for a while and see if you can row or do chin-ups. No matter what your goals are, you’d be better served by deadlifting.

I always looked at it like I was underemphasizing the other muscle groups, that twice a week is a reasonable workout frequency. I’d love to do all muscle groups twice a week, but I just can’t work it in. Is twice a week really considered overemphasis? It doesn’t feel like it.

Actually, I was considering adding deadlifting to the routine, especially since we abandoned squats a while ago (was killing the knees). It seems like it’s an exercise that covers a lot of territory. For some reason I never really worked it in regularly.

[Stratocaster]

@larsenmtl

Might be a stupid question but you aren’t locking out your elbows are you?

No. Couldn’t do it if I wanted to, but I wouldn’t try to anyway. Typically the first rep of the set, my forearm is off “fully extended” (using the preacher platform as the line) by as much as 45 degrees. I just can’t go any further. Then on the next rep I can go a little farther, then a little farther on the next one. Not a big range of motion.

[Stratocaster]

@ultrafilter

It’s not a question of how much chest work you do, but how much back work you do to balance it out. Most people don’t do enough back work, and always prioritize their chests–after all, those are the muscles they can see. It’s important to keep your back and chest balanced out so you don’t have upper back or shoulder problems.

The Q&D test is to stand neutral with your arms at your sides. Your palms should be facing each other through the area right between your quads and butt. The further back they point, and the further forward they are, the more you need to do some chest stretching and upper back work (primarily rows).

Just saw this. Makes sense, and answers my prior question.

[Stratocaster]

@Dr_Paprika

It sounds like an epicondyle injury. You can’t work the biceps without working the elbow. If you want this to get better, you will overcome your pride and cut down on your curling weight even though you do not wish to do so. Substitute an abdominal exercise for your bicep one for a couple weeks, then try the bicep curl at half the weight and see if it is still panful. Seeing your doctor would be a reasonable thing to do; ice, ibuprofen, rest, etc. are also wise. Wiser than taking Internet advice for this sort of problem, anyway.

I absolutely wouldn’t dispute this. Maybe I’m kidding myself. Let me clarify: especially since turning 40, it seems as if there always something that’s aching. Generally nothing terrible. A shoulder that gets too tender to sleep on, for example. Stuff that usually goes away after a bit (sometimes after a few weeks, even). I don’t feel like an old man, or in constant great pain, or anything like that. Just minor aches and pains that come and go. I bet anyone over 40, especially those who lift, know what I mean.

So I generally just back off (but I don’t stop completely) exercises that involve muscle groups that are currently flaring up. I guess I’ve developed a philosophy (again, perhaps I’m kidding myself) that if I stopped working out everytime I had an ache or pain, I’d never work out. Believe me, I don’t want to be a “work through the terrible pain” guy, since I know down that path lies injury. As an example, I laid off legs for 6 weeks last year when I had an injury from running. There’s a difference between aches/minor pains and injuries, I think.

Perhaps incorrectly, I was still looking at this pain as minor, not major. I worked out yesterday, and today (without putting any strain on it, of course) my elbow feels fine. It’s not a constant pain. I’ve had shoulder twinges similar to this in the past, and I modified the shoulder work-out, backed off the heaviest weights, and in a couple of weeks I was OK. Thus my questions: Is it possible to work this muscle even somewhat effectively while easing strain on the joint? I guess the difference here is that the ache doesn’t seem to be receding, not at all.

I will tell you that I’ve had more than one doctor tell me: no one (not just me) should be lifting heavy weights–go for muscle tone. I understand that heavier weights put a strain on joints. But I also understand that adding muscle mass, combined with regular cardio, is what has controlled my “weight” (meaning body fat, not necessarily pounds, though it has reduced that also).

I’ve lost 50 pounds, while adding I don’t know how many pounds of muscle (which demands more calories). I am convinced that I have chose a lifestyle that balanced my body’s needs best. I feel great (mostly ;)) and I honestly feel I’m avoiding the heart attack I was heading toward. It’s not about pride or about having good “beach muscles.” I’ve ratcheted up my body’s thermostat via added muscle and cardio, and that was my goal. I really don’t want to stop lifting, not even for a single muscle group. But I will, of course, if that’s the only possibility. I was just hoping it was not.

Anyway, that’s my (perhaps foolish) reluctance to going to the doctor–I know at least part of what I’m going to hear, and it seems like pat advice to me. Anyone in a similar situation? Any advice (included that already provided) is appreciated.