umm…
was that it?
What ethilrist said.
2Thick, thanks for the succinct response. Focusing once more on the goal of each set, you say “choose a weight where you can do each set for 10-12 reps”, and then “your first set should not go to failure”. I’m still wondering how fatigued I should be after the first set. I get the feeling you’re saying to stop the first set when you might be able to do more. Is this right?
Also, what’s your take on Ethilrist’s 2 second - 1 second - 4 second timing. Seems QUITE slow on the lowering.
:smack:
:rolleyes:
:wally <- me
OOPS!.. Sorry dude!
I hate it when I don’t take my medicaton, medication [sup]tic-tic-tic[/sup]…
For a general description of how muscles work, see this article.
The reason for lowering more slowly is because a muscle can support a lot more weight going down than up, and in order to get the same training value, you need more time.
Powerlifting’s goal is to lift the highest amount of weight with perfect form.
Bodybuilding’s goal is to build the largest, most symmetric and most developed body. The weights lifted mean nothing.
Reps for powerlifting are lower and focus is on power movements. That has nothing to do with fatigue. You do not need to get anywhere near failure to build raw/explosive strength.
2Thick, I think you need to back off a bit.
I didn’t write a book on PowerLifting, but wanted to show the OPer where bodybuilding fit in, especially concerning the ‘reps’ questions.
And, you comment that “powerlifting has nothing to do with fatigue” is questionable. Fatigue is addressed when setting your routine and determiningg what percent of max to go with. So, fatigue has a lot to do with it.
“80% of max” isn’t a type of guideline? Fatigue plays a role, no?
The powerlifer does cut down the reps on power moves verus body building.
So not true. ‘Weights lifted’ mean alot. Ask anyone who pyramid trains, and a host of other methods. The weight lifted means alot.
Now you are short-selling body builders.
It is from experience and research.
Firstly, I was responding directly to a novice weight lifter at the end of his first year of training.
You do not need higher reps for the lower body because, in general, your lower body is in constant motion and under stress. That is not the same for the upper body (generally). Besides that, the compound exercises I mentioned for the lower body (i.e. squats and deadlifts) utilize your whole body and almost every muscle. Therefore, higher reps will not make a large difference for the average lifter.
Yes you can overload with lower or higher reps, but lower reps will force you to use much higher weights (which is dangerous for most people) and higher reps will just make you nauseous.
You are correct about stopping your first set knowing that you can pump out 1-2 more reps.
The general rule for timing is that you just need to lower the weight in a controlled manner and stop for a split second before resuming with a powerful (but controlled) explosion back to the original position.
I was speaking about the ends and not the means of each discipline.
You are correct that training routines are what create the bodybuilder’s body, though.
Once again, I am speaking in generalities.
The focus on powerlifting has little to do with fatigue. It is about power movements and plenty of rest time between the sets.
Bodybuilding is about working around and with fatigue to develop muscles. The specific times between sets are used to take advantage of the positive effects of muscle growth associated with muscle fatigue.
Ok, yeah, defintely I echo what you said if it’s concerning a novice with 1 year experience. Before I posted, I was trying to determine who you were talking to.
As for the other topic here: Bodybuilders are weightlifters who want to pack on a little extra, proportional muscle… IMO.
Most guys I know, including myself, got big by being strong, not by tricking their muscles to grow with certain reps and rep schemes and pyramid routines and burn-outs. There is no other way to be truly big without being relatively strong in relation to your “natural”, pre-working out strength.
A lot of a bodubuilders’ goals are the same as a weightlifters’ goals, with a couple extra goals such as good diet and proportion goals and the addition of extra training schemes to acheive micr-tears.
Personally, I think that if you want to be a good powerlifter, you should use your first 5 years of training as a bodybuilder in order to gain as much muscle as possible, then use that extra muscle to be stronger after that. Doing this, in the long run, you will lift more, because you will be bigger and have a larger msucle base to work with.
May I recomend a book. ‘Body For Life’ by Bill Phillips. All the answers to all the questions, in plain language. Perfect.
I cringe whenever I hear the name of that rag and the sell-out who wrote it.
Ditto on the Bill Phillips cringing.
I don’t know if the concept of “warm up” has been discredited, but as an older guy I find that it’s important for me to take it easy on the first set. If I use maximum weights and push hard on the first set, then I tend to feel pain that can last for weeks.
So the concept of using the first set as a warm up works for me. I get my muscles adapted to the idea that it’s time to work, or so I imagine. Then I push harder for the 2nd and 3rd sets, adding a bit more weight. If I’m really ambitious I’ll add another set with lower weights just to work the muscles in a different way.
I have no idea if this has any scientific merit. But it’s a system that I’ve found prevents injury, and that allows me to keep working out. I may not be maximizing my muscle growth, but I have no intention of going into competition. I’m doing this for my own enjoyment (oh, and my next sexual partner’s enjoyment too I hope).
Me three. It may not be bad for the absolute tyro, but that’s about all.
For a beginner just looking to tone up and some muscle definition, is that a bad book to begin with?
You don’t need a book. You need to post on a bodybuilder website and talk to the guys that are practicing the lifestyle and competeing in contests as you type. They will tell you how to get in shape and dispell any myths out there. you could start at: www.musclemag.com
Books are made to be sold, so if it’s popular amongst the majority, it’s probably crap because the truth about bodybuilding is not intriguing or complex or good reading material. They will contain a lot of sound advice but will be off on many points. Even Arnold’s book is crap IMO, not all of it.