Weightlifting Questions-

[Epimetheus]

*Originally posted by Fuel *
**Do you mean to say that doing 60% of 1RM as fast as you can for 20 reps recruits more fast-twitch fibers than lifting for 5 reps to failure?

Keep in mind, when you say “faster movements” that means that you cannot go anywhere near failure or else the reps will slow down which would not be fast anymore. SO you are implying a 300lb maxer doing 165 for many reps and you are saying that this activity will cause more, yes you said more, strength gains than one who trains low reps exclusively?

**

Ahh, I failed to address these points.

20 reps! No, 5 reps. Not to failure either. The point is to facilitate your nervous system. You don’t have to overload a system to stimulate it. That is the whole point in DE training.

WSB usually does either 10 reps of 3 or 5 reps of 5 for speed training. Then they are done. There is no to failure. Training to failure is training your muscles to fail.

[Epimetheus]

Had some spare time so did some sleuthing for your desire to see some cites:

http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/MotorDevelopment.html
http://www.i-a-r-t.com/articles/powerpoints.html
http://www.citysportsmag.com/story.cfm?story_id=1871&departmentid=20
http://www.net1.net/users/trigg/shudtarticle2.htm —>

During graded voluntary muscular contractions, MUs are recruited in order of increasing size, increasing contraction strength and diminishing fatigue resistance. Thus, the smaller, less powerful, fatigue-resistant fibers are almost always found to be recruited before the larger, more powerful, fatiguable fibers, regardless of speed of contraction (Henneman’s size principle). Furthermore,“all MUs are recruited at successively lower force levels if the contractions are performed at increasingly greater velocities. (In fact)…during the fastest contraction of tested movements, the recruitment threshold (becomes) so low for all units, including the largest, that the motor neuron pool (is) virtually simultaneously activated.” (22) Although, the threshold force of fiber recruitment of all MUs decreases at increasingly faster contractions of fiber recruitment (i.e. in brisk phasic or ballistic contractions), the same general fiber recruitment pattern (from smaller to larger) is still maintained. In some rare cases, however, if the movements are carried with sufficient velocity and the conduction is occurring along a fairly long axon (say 1 meter or so) even though the smaller motor neurons get recruited earlier, there will be an “apparent” reversal of fiber recruitment order, because of the slower conduction velocity of the smaller lower-threshold motor neuron (22),

http://www.setpro.com/NEWWEB/class_01.htm
http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/goldstein/speed-training.htm
http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~kamen/abstracts.htm
http://www.emedicine.com/neuro/topic610.htm

I can post more if you like. The connection between ballistic or dynamic efforts and greater motor unit utilization, and thus muscle fiber activation, is rather new, and not old school. (I am thinking old school like back in the 50’s… compared to that it is new)

[Fuel]

good info epimetheus. Thanks for your help. I was well aware that this could provide some functional strength, i just never thought of it in such technical terms. If more units are activated, that is a big deal, to lifters as well as bodybuilders, even if they are slow-twitch.

THe stronger i have gotten, the more fatigueable i have gotten, which is exactly what your fourth cite was saying. Maybe i need to train the ST fibers more by doing high velocity reps. I have seen the fatigue set in on the trails on many occasions, being a weightlifter for a while and then taking up mountain biking. I have more than enough strength to get up any hill, but i cannot continue my strength to the top many times because i am using too many easily-fatigued fibers. This is a primary example of what that cite was talking about, trying to utilize the small, but less fatigueable fibers to teach your muscles about power.

Very good info to know. I never thought good slow twitchers would help me get up a hill on my bike…

The power principle was good too. Even if you are lifting light weight, if you push it fast, it’s still the same power. And power = intensity = muscle gowth and strength.

I need to stop spending so much time on this board and go back to the bodybuilder boards where i came from because i am obviously missing out on the new info of the age.

[Epimetheus]

*Originally posted by Fuel *
**I need to stop spending so much time on this board and go back to the bodybuilder boards where i came from because i am obviously missing out on the new info of the age. **

Many of the boards out there just spew out the same ol stuff really. There is good info out there, but mostly it is in little pieces. Powerlifters turning noses up at good bodybuilding practices and bodybuilders ignorning good powerlifting ideas. People quoting recycled info from suppliment company owned bodybuilder magazines and proposing zero carb diets for bodybuilders that need the carbs and saying not to do cardio because it will make all your muscle go away. (I used to believe this, but this message board (barbitu8 in particular) made me see the light as they say)

I am glad you found the info useful, it made the time I spent finding them worthwhile.

[ultrafilter]

Actually, on the rare occasions when bodybuilding, powerlifting, or weight training threads come up, this board is probably one of the best sources for good information, due to the critical eyes of the membership. It would be nice to find some specialized boards that share the same mindset, but as is, I’ll just stick around here.

[whiteboy]

bodybuilding.com forums

[SenorBeef]

*Originally posted by Epimetheus *
…and proposing zero carb diets for bodybuilders that need the carbs…

Nit: I got my best resistance training results, by far, on a low to no carb diet. No one “needs” carbs, and not being burdened by large amounts of them makes the body building process smoother in my experience.

[Epimetheus]

*Originally posted by SenorBeef *
**Nit: I got my best resistance training results, by far, on a low to no carb diet. No one “needs” carbs, and not being burdened by large amounts of them makes the body building process smoother in my experience. **

Well anecdotal evidence aside, muscle is made up largely of glycogen and muscle movement is fueled by glucose. Carbohydrates being the best source of that. Low carbs= low energy in anerobic exercises like weightlifting. Your lifts would have been much better with a steady supply of carbs. Sorry, it is just how the body works. It might have felt ok, but that was your mindset, not the low carbs.

The funny thing is that most people that forgo carbs tend to increase protein to compensate. Well guess what protein gets converted to in the abscence of sufficent glucose levels in the bloodstream? Glucose. The exact freaking thing carbs get broke down into. Expensive carbs.

cite: http://www.momentummedia.com/agn/agn_q7.htm