weird product manager / designer relationship

So I just started a new job as a designer for a software company, and I work with several product managers and software engineers.

Typically the product managers give you the high level goals and brainstorm with you when a project starts, and they depend on you to execute the user-experience/graphic designs.

One product manager I work primarily with lately has not been inviting me to kickoff meetings, and seems to be trying to do the designs himself (he downloaded a version of Photoshop). I get the feeling based on his actions and what he says that he wants to be a designer.

The problem is I’m often being handed attempts at graphic/user-experience design, and instead of having the freedom to do what I was hired to do, I’m cleaning up something he tried to do, or being skipped over entirely until my direct manager asks why something I should be involved with looks and functions horribly.

Any tips on how to handle this? I like the guy but I’m not sure how he will react if: directly approach him, talk to my direct manager, or be subtle?

Thanks guys!

I’m a game designer. The producer who thinks he knows how to design is a common problem in the industry.

My advice is to talk to your direct manager and tell him what’s going on. Your primary goal is to cover your ass so that you don’t get blamed for the poor design choices the project manager is making. Tell your manager that the project manager doesn’t seem to want to just let you do your job. You’re *trying *to accommodate his approach to product development, but you’re worried that the result isn’t the best it could be. The tone you want to strike is Concern For The Company. You don’t want to come off as a prima donna or a complainer. Avoid even a hint of clashing egos. Instead you want to convey professional concern about the quality of the product.

Maybe your manager will be willing and able to help, and maybe he won’t. You don’t have control over that. But by keeping him in the loop about what’s going on, you can minimize the damage to your own reputation.

Confronting your bad project manager directly is pointless. If he respected your expertise he wouldn’t be trying to do your job. So he’s going to ignore any criticism or advice that you give him.

Thanks for the advice-it sounds like the best option. I’m new to the job so I’m a little afraid to cause any issues right now but I think I’ll have to.

The key is not to make it a *problem *your direct manager has to solve. You’re just passing along information about one of your projects. But that way later on if he complains about that project you can remind him about what you told him before:

“Yeah … I didn’t think it was good UI design either. But Project Manager insisted on it doing it that way. It’s like I told you last month … he keeps wanting to do the design himself.”

You want to be perceived as the Good Worker Who’s Trying Hard.

Hopefully your direct manager is good at his job and will intervene. Or maybe when you’re in the job longer you’ll build up enough of a reputation as a solid designer that you can start calling the project manager on his shit yourself. But until one of those things happen … Cover Your Ass.

Another good option might be to keep contacting the PM (or your direct manager), but in a tone of “I’m not understanding this, could you explain?” or “We discussed it in today’s meeting, but I’m not seeing the reasoning behind X” or “Could you tell me how this matches requirements A, B and C, because I was thinking about doing this instead.”

I had a co-worker who was excellent at this - you can raise the issue without saying “hey meathead, this sucks!” Diplomacy, she has it.

I’m a Product Manager. I don’t do design and I don’t write copy! In fact, the big self-deprecating joke is that Product Managers don’t actually do anything. We just farm it out to others with the skills! :smiley:

My suggestion would be to go to your manager and explain to him or her the situation. But I’d also come with a plan about what you intend to do about it. In my experience, managers hate having problems given to them. They like to be involved, but they want you to fix it.

Personally, my plan would be to talk to the Product Manager (after filling in your manager) and explain how the process usually works. Be open to what he may say but make sure he knows that you should be doing the design: It may be this person is new and things worked differently at the old company. Or it could be that your department schedules move too slowly for his needs. In that case, you need to work together to see if you can figure out something that works better. I guess it could be that he thinks he’s a designer (at some point, everyone thinks they, or their wife, or their kid could do better design/write better copy, etc.). If so, that’s just tough for him. He needs to work with the structure in place at your company. Product Managers need to spend their time thinking of the promotions and strategic directions for their products. They don’t need to spend it doing design for you.

What I’d try first (I have been working many years in design) is when you are handed a design, respond something like “Great! I see what you’re going for here. I really like . But, I had an idea, what about [show mockup you did that’s how you’d like it]. I like this because of [advantages X Y Z], and I incorporated [their decent ideas] that I really liked. What do you think?” Generally, when people do mockups they’re not trying to steamroller you so that you need to go over their head–they have some ideas and want to express them, but are poor at design so they may look terrible even if there is a kernel of a good idea in there. Pull out the good stuff, talk them out of the bad stuff, and show them your vision and I bet you they will see your beautiful design and say “yes, that’s what I wanted!”

If they don’t, then go for the go over the head thing. But I have been handed dozens of terrible designs that I can figure out what they’re trying to do, then I do it better, and when I (politely and enthusiastically and discretely) show them the better version they embrace it wholeheartedly. They probably want a great design too! Don’t pull out the nuclear bomb of going to their boss before trying to show them your designs and see if you can get buy-in–if they think you’re incorporating their ideas they’ll be your staunchest ally. And don’t discount non-designer opinions because they can’t express them well–they are good at what they do and can have a great handle on what’s the right tack to take, even if they show it in terrible powerpoint mockups.

We had a meeting yesterday with the programmers, about several new reports the clients want. The structure here is along the lines of “clients -> us -> programmers”. The veteran on the “us” side mentioned that the Excel samples provided look “exactly the way the clients want it, they want columns in that exact order, they want those filters, they want the icons to look like that”. I hadn’t even seen the Excel samples (yesterday’s meeting was the first time I heard of those specific reports, I’m new) but, having some experience with clients like that, I asked “do they also want those specific colors and letter formats?”

No, they don’t. The colors and formats in the Excel turned out to be a codification which hadn’t been spelled out anywhere (c’mon, it was only the data sources and which fields need to be added up!); the programmer who will be doing the actual coding scribbled furiously as she took it down.

Another vote for the “get your manager in the loop, approach the product manager with questions (just don’t overdo the ‘o thee source of all wisdom’ tone)” approach. IME it’s what works best with people who say “I want it exactly like this!” - it usually turns out that they only really give a shit about half of it, and once they’ve seen that they can save a lot of work by not trying to give you a complete design, they start working with you rather than on your toes.