Diplomatic nightmare? It’s not possible for them to be more shunned. They don’t give a fuck about anything.
They gave enough of a fuck to not harm previous detainees. So what’s making them so brazen this time?
Around 5,000 westerners, and 100,000 Asians, visit North Korea each year. The proportion detained for dubious reasons seems quite low, and I’d bet there are other, more well-known tourist destinations, with a higher proportion.
A number of my friends took part in the Pyongyang marathon this year, and I was disappointed that work commitments stopped me from joining them.
The situation with Warmbier has definitely given me and others pause though.
But I don’t agree with some upthread saying that at the time he went it was a really stupid decision / crazy risk.
…if/when he comes out of a year-long coma.
Might sound like this: “Arrrgh, uhhhhgg arrrhhhuurrr…”
I don’t think Warmbier was crazy for going to North Korea. I’ve seen several really interesting travel blogs from Americans and other travelers from Pyongyang that actually seem to humanize North Korea a little. It was a calculated risk. Chances are, he goes there and has a few interesting stories to tell. Unfortunately, he was among the small percentage of folks who end up finding themselves in a world of shit. The most dangerous places on earth aren’t strict dictatorial regimes like North Korea. The most dangerous places on earth are where there is no law and order. Some areas in Mexico and much of the Hindu-Kush region, for instance. I’ve read of people traveling to remote areas of Afghanistan – now that is effing dangerous.
What happened to Warmbier could actually happen in a lot of countries, many of which are led by regimes that are much less cultish and radical than Kim Jung Un’s North Korea. They may not necessarily be detained and used as political pawns in this manner, but foreign travelers, including those from powerful developed countries, can easily find themselves detained for dubious reasons by corrupt local officials or powerful locall citizens. They could be detained and held for ransom by local ‘law enforcement’, kidnapped, murdered, whatever. It’s probably a low risk, but a risk nevertheless. In my experience, the most common reason for Western visitors finding themselves in trouble was getting drunk in some local watering hole and then mouthing off to the wrong people.
But that doesn’t appear to be what happened here. I agree with Monty: Kim Jung Un’s regime wanted a bargaining chip. They probably beat him nearly to death on purpose to escalate and make America aware that they actually do have it in them to kill one of their detainees. It reminds me of the way Malaysia seemed determined some years ago now to send a message to Australia that they actually had it in them to execute two of their nationals for drug trafficking.
Maybe he will have a story to tell. Are reports true that he’s been in a coma since March?
You’re a terrible person. I’m surprised I haven’t seen you at the meetings.
He hadn’t been seen since March 2016, so he’s been in a coma for over a year.
My (admittedly morbid) WAG? He attempted suicide and (mostly) succeeded. I hope he recovers.
A horrible situation. I feel very sorry for him.
Unfortunately that wouldn’t work. There are lots of rules and laws designed to prevent idiots from acting like idiots, and they don’t work.
People still drive without seatbelts. Sometimes while being distracted by talking on a hands-free smartphone. Or maybe it’s not hands-free. And maybe they’re actually taking naked video of themselves.
Even if the US were to outright outlaw travel there, there’s nothing preventing a person from flying from the US to Japan, taking a flight to China, then taking a tour bus into North Korea. Someone will do it even if they have to buy a prepaid credit card (if American credit cards prevent this).
“Stupidity is like water. It always finds a way.”
I think the US should just say they will not rescue anyone who gets stranded, arrested or what have you in North Korea. That won’t stop all the idiots, but it means the US doesn’t have to expend any time or energy trying to rescue them. This makes taking hostages a poor strategy.
Since it has been over a year the prognosis looks very poor:
Otto Warmbier has apparently died. It all seems so senseless. I feel for his parents. I do have to wonder, though, how it was that he survived over a year in a coma in North Korea yet died so soon after returning to the US. I have to think that he must have been deteriorating rapidly which is why they returned him. Still, the punishment was still far too harsh for any crime he may have committed.
Is there any plausible non-violent cause of cardiopulmonary arrest in an otherwise healthy person in his early 20s?
For that matter, what *violent *cause could cause such a thing?
When I heard the reports from Ohio, it put me in mind of terry schiavo. I’m figuring the parents decided to “let him go”, rather than keep him on support; after conferring with the doctors. The doctors were very careful in the press conference on what was being done for otto.
So very sad for the parents.
I think a permit of some has merit.
When I read about this, I thought the two likely scenarios were:
-
He was in a coma for a year, and then the NK doctors noticed a definite deterioration and decided to get rid of the hot potato.
-
He was in some sort of persistent vegetative state and the parents decided to pull the plug.
It’s impossible to say, there are tons of pharmacological causes and physical injuries which could have caused this situation. Their claim of botulism isn’t even totally out of the realm of possibility, in like 10% of botulism cases the patient dies, and it can cause respiratory paralysis which requires proper ventilation to keep the person alive until they get better. If they had a lapse in his care he could have basically been oxygen starved for just long enough to mostly kill his brain and leave him a vegetable.
It’s unlikely if it was a physical injury it was a head trauma, as there would be clear signs of the skull fracturing, any head trauma bad enough to cause this level of brain damage would be impossible to hide.
We’ll likely never know the truth, but there are leaked reports that somehow U.S. officials have heard that Warmbier was “repeatedly beaten”, if he was being subjected to physical abuse a lot of things could go wrong. He could even have been restrained in a stress position improperly, in a way that suppressed his ability to breathe (that was a major factor in how Eric Garner died, albeit Garner was so obese which was a huge contributing factor, but it’s theoretically possible even for a healthy weight young adult to suffer a form of positional asphyxiation.)
What we do know is this is very out of the norm for North Korea. Most Americans they’ve detained have suffered privation and detention, but only a couple have been physically abused. None of those were physically abused to the point they died, or even suffered long term physical impairments, so for reasons we likely will never know the North Koreans may have decided to be far harsher with Warmbier. Or, some freak medical thing happened and they basically didn’t respond to it adequately and were left in a weird situation, of wanting to still reap the propaganda benefits of an American detainee but having a barely-alive vegetable instead of a healthy young adult.
An embolism, perhaps. Though I’m not sure that we can assume Warmbier was “otherwise healthy.”
Not to absolve Otto of any responsibility since he was an adult man fully capable of sound judgment, but this article provides illuminating insight about the tour group he was with: https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/booze-bribes-and-propaganda-the-company-that-promises-safe-travel-in-north-korea-061917.html
If he was surrounded by people (including a tour guide who is supposed to know better) doing stupid stuff and getting away with it, then no wonder he felt emboldened to steal a poster (assuming that’s what really happened). Plus the guy who last saw him alive who accompanied him on the trip said they were drinking the night guards came and detained him. So being under the influence of booze + being in an environment where risky behavior is encouraged made for a dangerous cocktail.
But it’s also possible that he wasn’t guilty of doing anything wrong but was singled out in order to strike fear in the touring company.