and i’m a registered republican (but voted Kerry). canada is looking pretty nice right now. goddamnit, who really votes for morals over policy? (apparently 51% of america) to expect any politician to be moral is idealist bull-crap. this supports my long held theory, that people are born niether good nor bad, people are born ignorant.
I’m eligible for VFW membership, from being involved in a war he got us into with, similarly, no exit plan. This fact is conveniently ignored by most folks on this message board.
Tell me how I deserved him, and then you can rant about this race.
For better or worse, presidents are elected, and some of us have to serve under them. All of us need to live with the result.
I still remember 1984. There can never be another true landslide again that will match that. Clinton and Bush are pikers compared to that monumental ass-whipping.
On Countdown on MSNBC last week they were discussing the english translation of ObL’s tape. There was some thought that the word for “state” that ObL used could possibly be translated as “states,” as opposed to a “nation.” If so, you red states better duck.
As an aside, let me note that I live in a blue state. A BIG, BLUE state. The Sears Tower is a big BLUE building. Thank you.
I have never posted in the Pit before, but this seems like a good time to start.
I can take solace in the fact (well, opinion…) that Bush’s foreign policy agenda has been completed, and he won’t go poking around doing any harm for the next 4 years. All he wanted to do from Jan 21 2001, was Get Saddam. And he did.
So now he’ll just spend the next 4 years raping the environment.
With any luck, his second term will be swamped by the scandals that were swept under the rug this year: Valerie Plame, the Halliburton no-bid contract; and he’ll just keep the seat warm until 2008.
But I’m just completely baffled and confused by 50% of my countrymen. I just don’t understand their thought processes.
You’ll get no argument from me that W was elected fairly and that as an American I’m obliged to hope for the best and pray that he shows more wisdom and humility and intelligence in his decisions than he did in his first term.
But, unfortunately, I believe him to be a shithead and all the things I’m worried about–Iraq, terrorism, the economy, the environment, health care, fiscal discipline, the defecit, the Supreme Court–I fear will only continue to worsen over the next four years.
I hope they don’t, but I believe they will.
I grew up as a Republican, though I haven’t voted that way since W’s father (against another Mass. Democrat), but I believe this could represent an enormous backlash for the GOP come 2008. They’re in complete control right now, and if things go in the shitter (and I hope then won’t, but I believe they will), they’ll have nobody else to blame. I believe in the wisdom and generosity of the American people, and I believe the administration’s excuses will become more transparent, their lies more blatant, their unwillingness to take responsibility more obvious, and their narrow-mindedness more unacceptable. They have nobody obviously positioned to take over after W leaves, so I’m hoping that people will recognize how the far right has hijacked the party and this, in combination with the infighting within the Republican ranks and a galvanizing amongst the Democrats, I hope will be enough to set the path of the country back to one I can be proud of.
I don’t necessarily agree with all of this (or at least, I hope it doesn’t all come true), but the sad fact remains, that if even some or most (!!) comes true, there are still many Americans who will regard him, like Reagan, as one of the greatest presidents that we’ve ever had. However, I assumed he’d win. There are too many people out there like my family, who aren’t the least bit informed and couldn’t normally care less about what goes on in our world at all, who none-the-less are motivated to vote to save us from the evil that Satan perpetuates. Not all, but plenty enough.
I am so saddened. To those who’ve had their rights quashed, our gay friends, someday the tides will turn and those who oppose you will be relegated to the same status as racists. I take comfort in that and the hope that now 2008 is almost assured to someone else who does NOT share these kind of hateful beliefs.
I’m certainly not an admirer of Bush and I expect nothing of value from him in the next four years, but hey let’s look on the bright side here!
I was always skeptical of Kerry’s claim that he could turn things around in Iraq. I feared that were he to be elected he would have born terrible criticism for losing Iraq. You can almost hear an elephantine radio goon lustily condemning Kerry in drug-fueled rage, “we were winning this war until the Democrats got into the White House!”
The Iraqi snipe-hunt is Bush’s war through and through and he should be the one who takes the full blame for it’s inevitable failure. The Bush plan in Iraq (and I’m complimenting him by referring to it as a “plan”) holds no hope of success. We face years of mounting casualties without any corresponding benefit to our country. “The world is a safer place without Saddam” is an empty slogan now, so imagine how it will sound after thousands more casualties, billions more dollars spent and fresh attacks from Al Qaeda. How popular will our flight-suit Napoleon be then? I hope none of this happens, but I am a realist. I also hope that Kim “Jing” Il doesn’t test a “nucular” weapon on the Korean “peninshula.”
What I’m getting at is that the Democrats will be much better-off if they win a resounding victory in 2008 than if Kerry had pulled out a tiny victory yesterday. We need an electoral realignment in this country. No one is better qualified to bring that change about than George W. Bush, especially if he can complete the purge of moderates from the Republican party in favor of those who think the Bible is a legal document and equate queer-bashing with strong morals.
However, doesn’t that put us squarely where right-wing talk show hosts claim we are: hoping for bad things to happen to America in order to advance our political cause?
Well, if there is anything I have learned from our evil Republican overlords, it is to never let collateral damage to innocent bystanders deter you from your political objectives.
Just touched a nerve there…I am so sick of the punditry saying that Bush connected with the voters who thought “moral leadership” was important. There’s nothing moral about lying to the electorate so you can start a war that kills tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis. What they really mean is that Bush & 51% of the country are on the same side of the cultural, not moral, divide. And it’s a code word for “no gay marriage & no stem cell research, and right to choose is lookin’ pretty dicey.”
This is my 9th election; 7th administration as a voting adult. I’ve never been so depressed about an outcome. I’ve never been so disgusted with an administration – even Nixon’s. I’ve never had so little faith in the wisdom of the electorate. How big a 2x4 do you need to hit some people with, to make them see?
I wasn’t forgetting California’s 55 electoral votes, but we knew those were going to be Kerry’s anyhow. We knew Kerry was going to get the Northeast and the West Coast, but not having won enough of the undecided states we came up short.
I’ll probably get flamed for this, but I think that it’s Kerry’s fault he lost. Remember all the polls which had an unnamed Democrat beating Bush handily? If those were accurate (and I have no reason to believe that they weren’t, then election was Kerry’s to lose and lose he did. The country split on party lines, because Kerry didn’t position himself as a vigorous individual who would outperform Bush.
What Kerry should have done, IMHO, is come out swinging from the get go. He should have had ads on the air asking where Osama was. He should have pointed out that if the government can’t supply flu vaccine, how can they be expected to supply vaccines in the wake of a bioweapons attack by terrorists. He should have ran ads showing Bush, Rummy, and the other members of the Adminstration saying they were unconcerned about Osama after 9/11.
He should have pledged to call a summit of democratically elected leaders from around the world and say to them, “Each one of us has pledged under the laws and constitutions of our respective nations to uphold the principles of democracy and human rights. If you are so committed to those principles, then why are you not helping us bring democracy to Iraq. You may not agree with the war, or our actions after the war, but if you are committed to the fundamental principles of human rights and democracy, then you are morally obligated to aid in the rebuilding of Iraq. If you think that we are doing wrong in Iraq and stand by, doing nothing, then you are committing an act of immorality greater than what you accuse us of doing.”
On the subject of gay marriage, he should have said, “If the Republicans are against government intrusion in our daily lives, then why are they trying to bring the government into the bedroom? God Himself has said that it is His provenence to judge sinners. I, for one, will not presume to have the wisdom of the Lord. I will follow the Lord’s commandment to love my neighbor, and I will attempt to remove the log in my own eye, before commenting on the mote in his. I want the government out of the bedroom of consenting adults, and I want the government protecting the health and safety of Americans. I would much rather have our police and military out catching criminals and terrorists, than in the bedroom, spying on people in the privacy of their own homes.”
I never saw him put it so succinctly, nor did I see any Kerry ads showing Bush saying he didn’t care where Osama was (and there is video of this). I heard him discuss about what he would have done had he been President during Bush’s first term (The whole business about going to the UN and building a better coalition was just pointless. Yeah, it’s the right thing to have done, but fuck all good it does us now.). I heard him speak in great detail about minutae, which, while it’s always good to exact and correct, doesn’t make for good soundbytes, which is what modern campaigns are won and lost on.
Overall, it seemed to me, that Kerry presented himself as an intelligent man, but not one of much passion. Bush, on the other hand, came off as someone who had passion, but not great intellect.
Both Kerry and Bush sounded like people who were willing to say anything to get elected. Neither of them appeared to have very many deeply held convictions.
Kerry blew it at the convention. Bush was vulnerable on both foreign policy and domestic policy; a rare opportunity for a challenger. Kerry should’ve gotten nasty from day 1 – hammering constantly at the themes that Bush lied, misled, weaseled, cherry-picked and obfuscated his way into a dead-end war, while taking his eye off the ball on OBL. But he thought the best way to get elected was to tell everyone “hey, I was in 'Nam” and hope they draw the right conclusions.
Once the Swift Boat Veterans for Lies & Deceit ads started getting traction, I knew Kerry was screwed. He played catch-up ever since.
In hindsight, I bet Dean would’ve beaten Bush like a borrowed mule. No Senate record to run away from; no “Massachusetts liberal” sign around his neck; a consistent anti-war stance. He was the generic “any democrat” who could’ve beaten Bush.
This may be why so few Presidents have come out of the Senate.
