Well, it's happening now, you stupid mother fuckers (vaccines)

The BBQ Pit
81

[QUOTE=madrabbitwoman]
It’s in the news here in Australia
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24227752-29277,00.html
Not one of the more common childhood vaccinations though.
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:eek:

:mad:

Those idiots deserve to go to jail. We’re not talking about counting on herd immunity here - the baby’s mother (who is probably breastfeeding him, and is definitely in regular intimate contact with him) HAS THE DISEASE. One that can destroy the liver. I hope Australia throws the book at them for this.

82

[QUOTE=clairobscur]
Out of curiosity, what’s the relationship between being Christian and refusing vaccination? Are there Christian churches that oppose vaccination? And if so, on what basis?
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The Amish oppose vaccination. I am not Amish, so my understanding may be imperfect, but I think it has to do with attempting to alter God’s will. They also oppose lightning rods and insurance for, apparently, similar reason.

AFTER God smites a child with measles, however, it’s OK to utilize any available medical technology to help said child.

83

[QUOTE=Darth Sensitive]
Total total hijack.

I’m a college student. I’ve currently opted out of getting the meningitis vaccine as I don’t like shots at all, am unnerved by the sideffects reported, and haven’t seen any news of outbreaks in the area.

How important is the meningitis vaccine?
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Well… meningitis can cause death within 48 hours of symptoms, if I recall, so it’s a pretty serious disease. Even if you don’t die, long term effects can include things like deafness, loss of limbs, etc. Pretty serious stuff.

If I recall, the meningitis vaccine isn’t mandatory, but if there is an outbreak you certainly should consider it, even if you don’t like shots. I’m sure you’d like being in intensive care even less.

84

[QUOTE=EJsGirl]
First, I didn’t get the impression that elbows has an autistic child (maybe he/she’s just been watching too much bad daytime television). However, tread lightly with some of that shite in the quote box, my friend. Especially the “discipline your goddamn kids” part. None of those things will prevent, cure or mask symptoms of autism.

Autism is not caused by vaccinations. It is also not caused by shoddy parenting.
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Either I didn’t post clearly, or you didn’t read well. I never said that Elbows had an autistic child, nor that autism was caused by any of the things I listed. However, I have seen a dramatic rise in the number of perfectly normal, if a bit wierd, children who are diagnosed autistic lately. I have taught children who actually ARE autistic and there is a world of difference between them, and a child who is poorly socialized and has a terrible diet that makes them irritable. Any of the other things I listed can contribute to developing behavioral problems in children. Truly autistic children need help, but it is the hot diagnosis du-jour.

85

Jehovah’s Witnesses forbade vaccinations in the past, then did a total 180 degree turn on the subject.

86

[QUOTE=Broomstick]

If I recall, the meningitis vaccine isn’t mandatory, but if there is an outbreak you certainly should consider it, even if you don’t like shots. I’m sure you’d like being in intensive care even less.
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It is mandatory for my daughter for her university as an incoming freshman. While I was on campus for my grad school work last year, U of I (Champaign) had a meningitis scare–I believe several kids were in the hospital. I don’t recall if anyone died.

To me, not getting vaccinated is as irresponsible as not wearing a seat belt or driving drunk. The risks far outweigh the “benefits” of noncompliance. In all of the above, IMO, you look more of an ass than like someone asserting their independent spirit against the Machine.

87

[QUOTE=Broomstick]
The Amish oppose vaccination. I am not Amish, so my understanding may be imperfect, but I think it has to do with attempting to alter God’s will. They also oppose lightning rods and insurance for, apparently, similar reason.

AFTER God smites a child with measles, however, it’s OK to utilize any available medical technology to help said child.
[/QUOTE]

The Amish do vaccinate, just at a lower rate than the general population.

88

[QUOTE=elbows]
“Most vaccines have a very long and old track record.”
Including the cholera vaccine, very long, very old track record.
And yet, still proven to be more dangerous than exposure. By the WHO.
[/QUOTE]
WHO has never recommended injected whole-cell cholera vaccines for routine use due to the high risk of side-effects. They do recommend oral cholera vaccination, though, again, not as routine… only if it is a high-risk area or an outbreak has occurred.

There may be several vaccines for any given disease.
They may be demonstrated as safe administered in isolation.

The effect when simultaneously administered with one or more other vaccines may not be as well understood. People have raised this issue with the gardasil (HPV) being introduced as part of routine childhood vaccination. Weird stuff has been known to happen. Even a reliably safe vaccine will have side-effects in some individuals.

From a public health perspective, if there is less ill-effect from vaccination and disease combined after vaccination than from the disease alone prior to vaccination, the vaccine is a success… even if there is a demonstrable link between the vaccine and some terrible side effect.

89

[QUOTE=Acid Lamp]
Either I didn’t post clearly, or you didn’t read well. I never said that Elbows had an autistic child, nor that autism was caused by any of the things I listed. However, I have seen a dramatic rise in the number of perfectly normal, if a bit wierd, children who are diagnosed autistic lately. I have taught children who actually ARE autistic and there is a world of difference between them, and a child who is poorly socialized and has a terrible diet that makes them irritable. Any of the other things I listed can contribute to developing behavioral problems in children. Truly autistic children need help, but it is the hot diagnosis du-jour.
[/QUOTE]

Sorry, didn’t mean to jump. I always wonder, though- diagnosed by who? No neurologist or PhD worth his or her salt would dx a “weird” child as autistic (at least I bloody well hope not).

This always makes me laugh- parents who would WANT their child to labeled with a serious disorder that they don’t have… or do they just want to get on Dr. Phil? :rolleyes:

90

[QUOTE=gravitycrash]
Is the autism rate going up in the US or not? I can’t find a good source.
[/quote]

The diagnosis rate seems to be going up, but that could be attributed to heightened awareness, as well as the likelihood that more affluent parents will get their kids looked at.

All the doctors and scientists I know are 100% sure that there is no scientific evidence whatsoever linking autism with vaccinations. But plenty of people will be okay with getting their “evidence” from Jenny McCarthy… :rolleyes:

91

[QUOTE=dropzone]

Measles Immune because I had rubella.

Rubella (German Measles) Been there, done that.
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Ah, I don’t think so.
german measles is caused by the Rubella virus and is unrelated to regular measles.

The vaccine is MMR Measles, Mumps and Rubella. You will note that measles and rubella are listed separately.

92

[QUOTE=Full Metal Lotus]

I would ask them to stand over a little ways and say “you two.. diptheria, you, measles, you, you and you, flu epidemic, you dead of a gangrenous infection from a cut, you two tuberculousis, and the rest of you..pnuemonia.”

“You guys are all dead, by age 8!”

It would create a somber moment, and I would use it to explain that out a class of 30 kids in circa 1918, that many of them would have died before reaching their present age, and how pennicilian, sulfa drugs and other antibiotics, innoculation, and access to basic medical care changed those numbers completely.

Then we would make rope on an antique rope making machine..

Regards
FML
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I think I love you. Talk about teaching moments!

93

[QUOTE=EJsGirl]
Sorry, didn’t mean to jump. I always wonder, though- diagnosed by who? No neurologist or PhD worth his or her salt would dx a “weird” child as autistic (at least I bloody well hope not).

This always makes me laugh- parents who would WANT their child to labeled with a serious disorder that they don’t have… or do they just want to get on Dr. Phil? :rolleyes:
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But there are parents that do, just like there are parents who doctor shop until they find someone to blame for Jimmy’s violent behavior or lack of success in school. Anything, anyone, to blame as long as they don’t have to look in the mirror and face their own demons. I think there are more parents like this than not (somedays I do, anyway). Maybe they don’t want to be on Dr Phil, but they want an explanation, a category, a box they can shoehorn the kid into. I never would have believed it until I became a parent myself. There are a lot of shitty parents out there.

94

[QUOTE=lisacurl]

Edit to add - the excuse of avoiding vaccine because of thimerosal is bogus anyway. I quote the CDC website here: Of course, it was always bogus since multiple studies have failed to prove a link between thimerosal and autism.
[/QUOTE]

Or why Thimersol would affect four times the males as females.

95

You know, since vaccines have been used, a lot more people have caught “teh gay”

96

My grandmother’s brother Clarence, who was close enough in age to her that they felt like twins, died of a smallpox epidemic. Grandmother later became of her community’s leader in the original March of Dimes, to raise money for polio research, that helped produce the vaccines available to us today.

My mother had diphtheria as a child. And whooping cough. Fortunately, she survived both, but she knows people who didn’t.

I’ve also known several older adults who had mild cases of polio as children and now, later in life, find themselves struggling with post-polio syndrome that is more debilitating than the disease itself was. Even a mild case of polio causes a lifetime of difficulty.

And you’d better believe I got every vaccination available. I was born and spent the first few years of my life in India; my parents saw firsthand the results of lack of immunization, and the only time they objected was when the idiot doctor gave me not one but three smallpox vaccinations simultaneously because he thought that multiple vaccinations meant increased protection. So I’ve got three smallpox vaccine scars instead of the usual one. Those of you who are too young to have a smallpox vaccine scar, be grateful; the near-eradication of smallpox has been one of the triumphs of modern science, IMO.

I was also among the earlier groups that received the polio vaccine. There was no religious objection, or any other kind; we were lined up at school, got our shots, and were grateful that we did because we didn’t want to get polio; we knew too much about just how awful it was.

If you don’t want to vaccinate your kids, fine. Just don’t let them mingle with society. Because I don’t want to see your failure to vaccinate cause an uprising in these deadly diseases among MY relatives!

97

[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas]
You know, since vaccines have been used, a lot more people have caught “teh gay”
[/QUOTE]

{checks list posted earlier}
Sorry, I don’t see that listed.
:smiley:

98

[QUOTE=Broomstick]
The Amish oppose vaccination. I am not Amish, so my understanding may be imperfect, but I think it has to do with attempting to alter God’s will. They also oppose lightning rods and insurance for, apparently, similar reason.

AFTER God smites a child with measles, however, it’s OK to utilize any available medical technology to help said child.
[/QUOTE]

I’m Mennonite (or raised that way, anyways) not Amish, and won’t presume to speak for them, but I would be very surprised if there were any truth to any of these assertions. This purported aversion to “attempting to alter God’s will” has absolutely no basis in Anabaptist religious beliefs. The general isolation and lack of technological uptake are based on completely different factors, none of which are in play with regards to vaccination. If there is a lower rate of vaccination among the Amish, I would attribute it to general lack of education and mistrust of the outside world.

That said, I can well believe that Amish don’t carry insurance. Why would they? They are self-insured through their community structure. If someone’s house burns down, the community will come together and build them a new one. There’s no sense in paying insurance premiums to outsiders for a service that isn’t even needed.

99

[QUOTE=EJsGirl]
Sorry, didn’t mean to jump. I always wonder, though- diagnosed by who? No neurologist or PhD worth his or her salt would dx a “weird” child as autistic (at least I bloody well hope not).

This always makes me laugh- parents who would WANT their child to labeled with a serious disorder that they don’t have… or do they just want to get on Dr. Phil? :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]

This is a tangent, but I have myself been through this cycle three times so far, and the child in question is 8 years old. Eldest has a language disorder which has yet to be specified. He has a number of the markers of autism, and since one of the three pillars of autism (if you like) is impairment in communication, this is not a big surprise. * When examined by psychologists, speech paths, educational specialists, linguists, and various other not-MDs, the conclusion has generally been that he is somewhere on the autism spectrum. Then he is referred to an MD-type, a psychiatrist or neurologist or neuropsych (respectively). Whereupon they have said that it is not even a close call, he is nowhere on the autism spectrum.

This is as a parent rather frustrating. This cycle takes between six months and a year each time.

I have until now insisted that an MD come into the mix somewhere, because I once gave up in the face of overwhelming pressure and allowed a school to proceed with teaching him with methods designed for people with autism, and it was an unmitigated disaster. It is to date my greatest regret, that I set my own knowledge about my child aside – I thought maybe they were right, maybe I really was in denial and thereby harming my child.

Maybe I still am. I don’t think I am, but I have no way to know, not really.

It is all very subjective, there is no objective test for any of the things which come into play for an autism spectrum disorder diagnosis I expect a lot of parents simply want to have some help for their child or an explanation for what they do not understand.

You know, a diagnosis is not a label so much as it is a ticket. It’s a ticket to various services, support, what have you. If I buy a train ticket to go see the Van Gogh Museum, my ticket does not go door to door. I have to get myself to the train station in Breda, then buy a ticket from Breda to Amsterdam, then get a bus or walk the rest of the way. But I don’t want a ticket to Brussels as that is the wrong way. In just the same sense, I don’t care if my kid varies in some ways from the listed criteria. People do. But I do want to be damn sure that this diagnosis will in any event get me the resources needed for the main problem.

Some people aren’t as clear about their goals for one reason and another and all they know is that they need to get somewhere.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

  • The other two are impairment in social interaction and restricted/sterotyped behavior
100

What you are saying is very true–an accurate diagnosis is just the first step. And an accurate dx can help your child receive appropriate treatment and education etc.

There are parents who don’t have such a child, but also don’t want to change their behavior patterns or coping mechanisms despite the difficulties they give the child–they want the child fixed, not them. Whole different ball game.

I also once listened to people in education about one of my children. I will never do so again (and we had nothing like what you described). I would like to think you know your child better than anyone except that child–we all want to think that. What else have we got? Good luck to you and yours.