Thank the gods for the Rosenbergs. It is they, not criminals like Kissinger, who should have been awarded the Nobel Peace Price. Without those martyrs, we would all be Americans, or under the American yoke by now. Ask the Iraqis how they feel about that.
The Rosenbegs were part of a Soviet Attempt to obtain information on the USA / British Nuclear Weapons programme at Los Alomos. They were Traitors. The information that they passed had no real value - the real damage they caused was to confirm the existance of this Top Secret Project, which caused the Soviets to intensify their efforts to locate ‘someone with real knowledge’ a key -figure. who might be able to explain in detail the refining processes for U235 and describe in details the ‘critical - detonation process’ of an A-Bomb. They found their man in Klaus Fuchs an East German Refugee Physicist. When the two a -Bombs were expoded over Japan the arms race was on. These two people aided by others were prepared to see the USA annihilated. See below:
September 28, 1915: Ethel Greenglass Rosenberg born. May 12, 1918: Julius Rosenberg born. 1929: Communist Party of the United States is founded.
[ REMAINDER OF TEXT DELETED – CKDH ]
EXECUTED AT SING- SING PRISON. NY. 1953. TRAITORS.
I assume the OP refers to this column: Were Julius and Ethel Rosenberg Spies?. Thanks for providing two extremes on this subject.
Is all this, by any chance, related to this?
APB, thanks for finding that website.
TRUE-BRIT, the rule on the Straight Dope Message Boards is that you may NOT copy a text in its entirety. I don’t know whether that website is copyright, but we treat it as if it were. U.S. “fair usage” rules apply – that is, you may copy a small selection with proper attribution, or you may provide the website as a link. What you did – copy an entire section of text with no attribution – is a violation of our rules.
You’re fairly new here, so we’ll forgive/overlook this, assuming there’s no repeats. You might want to take the time to acquaint yourself with our rules. And, I might as well use the opportunity to remind everyone: Because Cecil and the CHICAGO READER care very much about protecting their own copyright material, we are more stringent in defending the rights of others.
The Rosenbergs: True- Brit to APB.
Yes, I obtained this factual information, background dates, on the Rosenbergs by seeking aid from a Google search site. I did this search solely in order to avoid being blitzed [barbecued] by this sites gunslingers, the Knowledge Marshalls of Room 101. See Orwells 1984. I learnt my lesson from the Barbecue post? a post in which i made the beginners mistake of not giving cites.
The BBQ post was my very first post and i was unaware of the rules or etiquette involved. After this episode i was determined to be more careful hence the bottom paragraphs in this post. All this information is in the public domain and well recorded in various books on this couple. I was attempting to be more be more factual so that i can provide, it was strongly suggested i should, provide some supporting information which is not disputed and the flamethrowers do not get primed.
The problem with the Rosenbergs is that any undue criticism of them can so eaily be misconstrued. I recall they were vilified for being Jews and that the anti-semites [we call them the BNP ] unfairly used their personal religous beliefs to suggest that all Jews are disloyal. This is untrue. The leading physicists on this project including Oppenhiemer were mostly Jewish. Its claimed that Phsysics has such a large number of Jewish principals and leading lights that its considered a Jewish subject. This is a path we should avoid going down. Its opens up a can of worms if you passively agree with it.
I notice you ignored the anti- USA sentiments of post number 1. I tried to ignore what he said because its so obvious he’s an unwelcome intruder with an axe to grind. I have no love for people of his ilk.
Beam me up Scotty.
I have just emailed Dexter to apologise and of course posted the brief explanation above. You will appreciate i have been on this site 7 days. Whilst i need an hobby, i do not need hassle. I realise there’s a very fine-line between hatred, hassle, and say scorn. With my background , i was in business 40 years, i am loaded with unusual input. i see things differently, and i do not toe the party line. I am an eccentric in some respects, eccentric because my life experiences have been made on big and little beds of dissapoinment. I will not elaborate further on my accomplishments but i can say i have many admirers in Leeds.
You have scored with your post. i shall not post again.
I am not sure why Poster Number 1 should be an unwelcome intruder. And I doubt very much that one opinion defines the sort of “ilk” anyone is.
If one takes a moment to ponder over what lies behind what Poster Number 1 wrote, instead of making the typical knee-jerk reponse of many when they see/hear criticism of the United States, maybe a lot of things that shouldn’t be happening in the world today, wouldn’t have.
And besides, such a reponse surely does not befit the type of people you would think one would encounter on this website.
Oh, sô sorry :smack:
I hadn’t realized that the Forum rules included a pledge of allegiance to Amerika. I will humbly try to make myself welcome and pro-truding instead of in-truding
Now, if anyone should happen to have an opinion about my view of the Rosenbergs, it might be interesting to resume the discussion where it never started.
It’s always been my general rule of thumb that anyone that spells it “Amerika” isn’t worthy of debate, or feeding. :rolleyes:
There are probably places where that rule of thumb is valid, but I get the impression that the OP is not an American (or, for that matter, in any country where English is the first language), and the misspelling of “America” may fairly be attributed to an imperfect command of the English language.
And while the OP’s opinions are certainly different from my own, and doubtless from those of many other members of this board, he has a right to those opinions, and a right to express them here. Let’s not ostracize him just because of strong anti-America sentiments.
An apology, by the way: I just took a second look at the OP’s name, and realized that it’s a female name. So change all instances of “he” to “she” in my preceding post.
Okay, your view is facile and unsupported:
- While Kissenger may very well have committed criminal acts, he has never been convicted of a crime. The Rosenbergs were convicted of a crime.
- Let me get this straight, people actively involved in the proliferation of nuclear weapons should be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Riiiiiggghhht.
- Please show any evidence for the fact that if the USSR had lacked nuclear weapons, you would be under “American yoke”.
Except that she got it right in the OP. It’s a jab.
If indeed, the error was not deliberate, I aplogize. :smack:
I wouldn’t ostracize our OP just because of being anti-american- hey this is a free country - but because long experience has taught me about dudes who spell it with a “k”.
Yes, I would say that names that end in “dottir” are usually female, but I would never have guessed that NurseCarmen is a guy, either, so …
Jab or no jab, it is quite common for the Scandinavian languages to replace the “c” in words by “k”, although there is a bit of disagreement amongst them where it is or is not replaced.
I don’t think that you folks ought to get so upset. I mean, the Germans probably don’t take much offence when you don’t call their country Deutschland or when you insist on spelling Danmark with an e and most Americans wouldn’t have an idea where Republika Hrvatska is - maybe even if I named it by its English name.
Easy. I look at the mess the world is in now with only one true imperial power, and I think, horror of horrors, of that already happening 50 years ago. I have so far lived a life of relative peace, warwise at any rate, thanks to the balance of powers which the Rosenbergs, but not them alone, have helped maintain. Fair enough, I didn’t live in French Algeria, Stalinist Russia, Maoist Tibet, Pol Pot’s Cambodia, Pinochet’s Chile, McCarthy’s USA, Franco’s Spain, USA’s Vietnam, Apartheid’s South Africa (with the wrong colour). I just lived in the western Europe my parents’ generation had torn asunder.
With regard to your point 1, I cannot see how relevant it is to what I wrote. But how about exchanging one innocent executed Black from the gaols of Texas against two or three Kissingers?
There seems to be a lot of apologizing for an obvious troll. I’ve been posting here a while and lurking for a lot longer. I know we all tend to give a little leeway to a guest but from each of the posts I see from the OP there is no discussion of the facts of the column, just an attempt to bait an angry reaction from someone. Now we have a childish argument between two guests that doesn’t even belong in the Pit and no discussion of the issue at hand. I’m punching out. :rolleyes:
Croatia. It used to be part of Yugoslavia- now between Bosnia & Slovenia.
It’s not the misspelling. Spelling America with a K has long been a way of calling the USA a nazi-like nation. When it is done deliberately, as it appears to have been done in this case- it is indicative (to me) or a certain closed mindset that there is no use arguing with.
The Deutsch themselves call their nation Germany in diplomatic communication in English. They could (as some nations have) request that we use their “native” name rather than the age-old English vesion of it.
Do you mean to say that the historical significance of the Rosenbergs in the long term is not related to this column?
Ok I’ll rise to the bait once. This is my opinion. I am not a Mod nor do I pretend to be. If one chooses to put in their professional opinion you’ll be able to see it. I won’t because this “discussion” does not interest me.
The column answered the question were the Rosenbergs spies. It answers it with a yes. Cecil also renders his opinion on whether the punishment fits the crime. Comment on that.
You start a thread which can be summed up as “America sucks.” You might find a lot of people to agree with you in the Pit but your OP is hardly a comment on the column.
Agreed. Feeding over.