Read a number of past threads about the couple, and lots of mentions in related threads. But most of them are GQ topics. I want ask whether or not their executions was just.
I’ll assume espionage of this magnitude and sensitivity in America is a capital crime. Now, was the judge (and President Eisenhower) correct in mentioning that the Korean war was initiated as a direct result of the Soviets (and maybe the Chinese) obtaining American nuclear secrets? Should the couple be held responsible for deaths in that conflict? Of course not! What kind of argument is saying the communists were emboldened to attack as a result? The Korean war was a proxy war at most. The North Koreans didn’t have the bomb and there were no indications the Chinese were going to give them any. An “emboldened” attack would be for the Soviets and Chinese to openly challenge America by attacking their territory or their overseas personnel. That’s what I’ll do if I’m so pumped up about getting the secret to making an atomic bomb. But clearly they weren’t. Not at any time up to the fall of communism.
Second, I’m still at a loss at how Ethel could have been viewed as a co-conspirator, just as guilty as her husband. Yes, I read about prosecutors threatening her with the death penalty to put pressure on her husband. I also read about her brother’s recent disclosure that his own wife may have been the guilty one and not his sister. Ethel’s brother simply chose to save his own wife. And then there was Ethel’s demeanor throughout the proceedings. Her calm stoic attitude didn’t sit well with the judge. Those dualities would surely weaken any argument of guilt beyond reasonable doubt.
The Chinese nuclear programme did nit begin until after the Korean War, and did nit detonate bomb until 1964.
In fact it was the multiple nuclear threats made by the U.S against China during and after the war and the near genocidal bombing of N Korea; the USAF’s own estimates were that twenty percent of the pre war population had been killed-that lead to the Chinese nuclear program,mme.
You shouldn’t be. There’s ampleevidence she was in on the plot, if not as active as her husband.
“The Rosenbergs were Soviet spies, and not minor ones either. Not only did they try their best to give the Soviets top atomic secrets from the Manhattan Project, they succeeded in handing over top military data on sonar and on radar that was used by the Russians to shoot down American planes in the Korean and Vietnam wars.”
Supporters have cited the recent release of the transcript of David Greenglass’ 1950 grand jury testimony to claim Ethel was not a Russian spy.
*"Ethel’s innocence, however, cannot be ascertained by ignoring other evidence outside of this transcript that points to her serious involvement in the espionage of the Soviet network her husband ran. Even in other parts of the same transcript, largely ignored in the press reports, Greenglass has his sister Ethel present and knowledgeable, as when he says she was present at a meeting with Julius and a courier for his group, Ann Sidorovich.
Hard evidence for Ethel’s guilt can be found in the Venona decrypts of KGB messages to its operatives in the U.S., and in the notebooks of KGB files meticulously copied in the 1990s by Alexander Vassiliev, who fled Russia in 1996 and had them smuggled into London.
A Nov. 21, 1944, Venona decrypt has Julius telling the KGB that he and his wife both recommend the recruitment of Ruth Greenglass, David’s wife. On Nov. 27, KGB agent Leonid Kvasnikov cabled that they considered Ethel “sufficiently well developed politically. Knows about her husband’s work” as well as that of other agents."*
While I don’t think she should have been executed, her “calm stoic attitude” didn’t sit well with me either. Had she cooperated with the investigation and named names, she very likely would’ve been spared the death penalty. Instead, she placed loyalty to the Communist Party over being there (even behind bars) for her children.
They were traitors. There wasn’t any need to execute them, but there was no question of their guilt. If Ethel wasn’t as deeply involved as Julie then she was still being a martyr for the cause. I’m sure there was unfairness in the process but I’m not sure that a completely fair process would have changed the result.
He was guilty of espionage and treason. Both are capital crimes.
The Venona transcripts indicate that she was a willing, active accomplice. That makes her guilty of capital crimes.
If you think that capital punishment is always unjust, then their sentences were unjust.
If you think that capital punishment can be just, then I think their sentences meet the criteria that the judge was required to consider.
For more background and a more personal look at the Rosenbergs, I highly recommend the documentary “Heir To An Execution” which was directed by their granddaughter, Ivy Meeropol. Interesting side note is that Ivy is also the adoptive granddaughter of the man who wrote the song “Strange Fruit” about lynchings in the American South.
The documentary is fascinating and IMHO somehow manages to make the Rosenbergs seem somewhat sympathetic at least for how they held to their principles. It’s Greenglass who comes across as a snake in the grass. Yes of course you might say anyone acting as spies against the US gov’t is also a snake in the grass but I’m speaking here in terms of things like family loyalty or personally held ideals rather than “devotion to your country”.
Well, maybe. OTOH I know some granddaughters who don’t have much “sympathetic” to say about their grandparents! :rolleyes: But yes possible bias is why I mentioned it’s directed by her. Personally I thought she seemed to make an effort to be as objective as possible and seemed to feel somewhat “removed” from certain aspects of the story. I didn’t at all perceive it as an automatic fluff piece intended to whitewash events or make them seem like saints or anything. It was quite fascinating really.
60 Minutes aired a very interesting interview with the Rosenberg brothers last night. They are petitioning President Obama to clear their mother’s name due to lack of evidence.
Obviously TBG did not see the documentary. I thought it was well done. Ivy had been told her whole life by her father that her grandparents were innocent. She went into the project thinking she would find that they were innocent. Instead she found the opposite. This was before her father realized the truth. If anything she was pissed that her grandparents put their loyalty to communism above their own children. The two boys could have grown up with a mother if they had just told the truth. It’s been a while since I’ve seen it but that’s what I got out of it.
Whereas making an end run around the Atomic Energy Act of 1946 so that France could develop its own nuclear weapons (including tests in Algeria at the height of the latter’s war of independence) is perfectly hunky-dory.