I was just looking and didn’t see the usual West Wing thread. Forgive me if I missed it.
I thought this episode was pretty good - Mathew Perry was good and the story line with the Chief Justice was well-done; it didn’t end as you might have suspected.
My major complaint was with the sound…is it just me, or were they mumbling a lot last night. It was hard to hear a lot of dialog.
The sub-plot with Zoey’s interview was realistic, and it looks like President Bartlett has got his fire back at the last minute.
Well, I’ll chime in. I didn’t think the Chief Justice storyline was handled well. The President wouldn’t even think of sending someone over to see if the Chief Justice wanted to resign. That’s just not done. Especially a president, who is in as much political hot water as Bartlet.
The Chief Justice would have been taken aside by the senior associates and be told it was time to go. Probably a few years earlier. That’s how the Supreme Court operates. To expect, the Chief Justice to take advice from a former clerk who is a White House Counsel seems pretty far-fetched.
The Supreme Court has always done a pretty good job of keeping itself in line and retiring members who aren’t up to the task anymore. That’s what happened with Holmes and Douglas.
It looks like interest is waning, since it took all day for this thread to start!
Honestly, I started watching, but after about a half hour, I decided I was tired, and went to bed.
Can someone tell me how the Chief Justice storyline ended? The last I saw, Matthew Perry’s character had just lied about him being up and around, returning to work soon.
We don’t know how the Chief Justice storyline ended. You are led to believe he is coming over to see the President in order to resign, but then they have a conversation in which it is by no means clear that he is resigning – in fact it sounds like he refused to. The best part of the episode was right at the end, when the President refused to agree to the very ham-fisted, blatant blackmail of the Republican Congress in order to keep the government limping along. (Another thing that would never happen IRL – that they would agree to one thing with the President’s minions and then try to hold him up for something else in person.) This set up next week’s episode, in which the government will be shut down due to the inability of the President and Congress to agree to a budget.
But the Chief Justice indicated that he couldn’t resign because Bartlett was too weak and cowed by Congress to nominate anyone worthy to be his (the Chief Justice’s) successor for fear that the nominee would not be confirmed. That helped Bartlett get his fire back, and by showing that he will willing to stand up to Congress on the budget, Bartlett is signalling the Chief Justice that he can and will name a good successor and fight to get him/her confirmed.
It was better, still not great. One thing I noted, particularly as I watched parts of today’s Bravo rerun of a Thanksgiving episode, was that Bartlet (the character) has become increasingly one-dimensional. They did do some stuff, indirectly, about the strain between him and the first lady, but he’s just not the quirky Jed that gives out Thanksgiving advice or loves to dispense useless trivia that he used to be. I know that his daughter was kidnapped, and times are tough, but that hasn’t stopped him from being a real person before.
Agree that the Supreme Justice thing was just not believable, although the acting by the old guy was good. It just seemed an excuse to bring Matthew Perry back in. And I seem to recall talk way back when of a Justice who was writing decision in verse, but there was no mention of that in this episode. It would have been good for continuity.
Another quibble: Cowboy Bob was brought in for no apparent reason. ITGOD*, Hoynes was around when it was important for dramatic tension. In this one it just seemed an excuse to keep Will and Cowboy Bob in play.
I have learned what part of my problem is… I usually watch it after I’ve watched the Bravo rerun. (Last night was “The Indians in the Lobby”)
That’s a mistake.
Because it probably isn’t as bad as I think it is… it seemed, last night, to be a mediocre nighttime soap-opera. Shows like Third Watch have survived for years being a mediocre nighttime soap-opera. Sometimes, those can be enjoyable. I just expect much more. I need to stop doing that. (I do still hate the camera and lighting guys. Even bad nighttime soaps don’t seem to be shot by a 4 year old in candlelight.)
Still, what was with Donna’s suprised face when Angela asked for her input. She inputs on all issues every week. She has since the beginning of the show. We always know what Donna thinks about the issues. That her opinion is heard is not something that should surprise her.
The entire plot with the Justice didn’t really make sense. Bartlet’s interfering was out of character (and tacky, and beneath the character of the people on the show). Also, the Justice’s tirade might have made sense theoretically, if it were a brand new show. But it didn’t make sense seeing that 4 years ago they put Mendoza (who was a highly controversial judge both in his manner and his decisions) on the bench. It hadn’t been easy (“Celestial Navigation” is my favorite episode) but they’d done it. So now it made no sense to say that they couldn’t do it now in what is an essentially identical political climate. They’d done it before, they can do it again.
The fact that only one of them cared (and only for a second) about blowing a campaign promise didn’t make sense.
I also distinctly remember (again, as it was on Bravo last week) Abbey telling CJ to quit playing marriage counselor. So - what was CJ (who again has been reduced to nothing) doing? Not that I really minded, I’m thoroughly sick of the new Abbey - which is sad. They used to be my favorite married couple on television.
I think Sorkin wrote out the Hoynes character because he was afraid they’d make him President after Bartlett and he doesn’t want a democrat who’s more conservative than a Republican from the northeast as President on his show.
I keep waiting for Cowboy Bob to make a big splash.
interesting tidbit. Cowboy Bob and Will both played Secret Service agents in In the Line of Fire.
As I’ve said in previous WW threads from this season, I think this season is more realistic. Once you get to that level in politics, especially Leo, former Labor Secretary, you have to play dirty and hardball, even with your own people. That’s why I wasn’t surprised with what they did with Josh.
I was disappointed because I was expecting a big tirade from Bartlett at the end instead of “fine” or whatever it was he said.
I thought the Chief Justice’s reason for not resigning was bogus. He wanted to stay on the bench because he was afraid that Bartlet couldn’t push a progressive liberal candidate through Congress. Since immortality isn’t an option for him, what did he think he was going to do? Wait until Glenallen Walken became president? Or Haffley?
It makes NO SENSE for Ashland to stall his retirement until he’s either incapacitated and has to wait for Congress to approve his impeachment (which it was pointed out would be a pain in the ass), or until he got a president more to his liking, a big old crapshoot he’s likely to lose. The faulty logic here, that no one on the show noticed, bugged me.
I thought Donna was surprised that someone other than Josh cared about her opinion. She’s probably gotten nothing but negative impressions of Angela from Josh and Toby, so to find out she’s actually kinda nice and interested in respecting her opinion probably threw her for a loop.
IMO, the reason they’re showing Cowboy Bob and Will on the show rather often can be summarized thusly: spin-off.
The idea was to make a dramatic set-up. Both a liberal and a conservative have now accused Bartlett of being weak and ineffective. So now he’s going to step forward and totally overwhelm his opponents. Expect a big dramatic showdown where Bartlett outmachos everyone next week. Maybe the episode will end with Jed riding his horse up to New Hampshire, throwing Abby over his shoulder, and carrying her up to the bedroom for a heap of lovin’.
On another note, I agree with fiddlesticks that it’s entirely unrealistic to have Will still hanging around now that he works for Russell. On the other hand, it was unrealistic before. Will’s character was supposedly a lower level staffer like Donna who wouldn’t have been sitting in at top level meetings. But again, television needs trump reality. Will is one of the main characters; so he’s going to be onscreen with the other characters.
I don’t think the Press Secretary is considered senior staff or has such input on important issues as CJ does either. Their job is to take what’s been decided and present it favorably.
Sorry, Will and Donna are not at the same level of staff. Donna is Josh’s executive assistant. Will was the Deputy Director of Communications, Sam’s old job. Big difference.
