What a good idea! Let's visit a country and tape a show that insults its populace.

The BBQ Pit
141

Well … My grandma, in her last days, was at Fleury Hospital. The reason for my 911 call was because she lost control of her legs and couldn’t stand up. When the ambulance got there, I asked for her to be transported to the Montreal Jewish General. They told me that with the nurse’s strike (in 1999 ~ also caused by our separatist gov’t at the time), it was better if she went to Fleury, which was closer to my home (at the time) in St-Michel, so I could take care of her (ie: change her diapers and feed her). So I agreed, as long as they were able to serve her in English. “OF COURSE! Everyone’s bilingual there.” As I was new in town, I agreed. And off she went to Fleury.

Well, I should have known better. They were never able to tell me what happened to her legs. They did send in a physiotherapist who was ‘bilingual’. When she spoke to my UNILINGUAL ENGLISH SPEAKING grandmother, she said: “Plis your genoux.” Not only that, she called her by her maiden name which she hadn’t heard in 60 years. I’m sure you can understand that MacDonald in French sounds more like: Maaack Dough Naald. So when they said, “Plis your genoux, madame maaack dough naald”(real fast), instead of “bend your knees, Mrs.Lamoureux”, my grandmother stared at them with a blank look on her face. Physiotherapy was stopped. Why? They said she had ALZHEIMER’S. I argued continuously that she didn’t have Altzheimer’s, she was ANGLOPHONE! I took my case up with the Ombudsman.

I demanded she be transported to the Jewish General, where they could speak English. I was told that I would have to sign her out of the hospital, get her onto public property without their wheelchair, and then call an ambulance for her. Furtheremore, if she died on the way, I would be arrested for manslaughter. I was alone. My family has died. I didn’t have anyone to help. So I left her where she was, close to me. She was brought to the hospital on Canada Day (July 1) and died on September 25. If I had it all over to do again, I would have never listened to the Ambulance technicians.

The worse part of it is … She was always so proud that she still had an alert mind, after all these years. When she finally died, after a bout with MRSA, the cause of death on her death certificate was: Altzheimer’s. I guarantee you, the woman was completely sane, when speaking to me. When speaking English to anyone.

Unfortunately, in a French hospital, if you didn’t understand French, you have lost your mind.

I hope this shines the light a bit onto how deep a cut the joke was. Lives were lost because of it. Death certificates are inaccurate because of it. It’s just not funny. But I’m sure Conan doesn’t know that. So I forgive it.

142

Is it that freakin’ hard to learn two languages when you live in a country where you speak two languages? And people dis on Americans only speaking English.

143

Congratulations! You’ve just solved the whole problem in one fell swoop!

:rolleyes:

144

I have to admit that I still don’t see the big issue here about “cultural identity.” Maybe I’m just a fool, but I define myself by my interests and actions, and while being able to speak a language matters, which one seems pretty much a non-issue for me. Actually, I’d rather it be Spanish, but mostly because I just like the way it sounds, not because it is part of WHO I AM AS A PERSON. Neither is where I live an integral part of my life. I like New England and all, but it doesn’t do shit to define me as a person. I do that. In fact, I kind of thought that a person’s identity was what it was because of that person. It sounds downright contradictory to personally identify as part of some nebulous group.

Good luck with fighting the power, or whatever it is. Really, if it is important to you then who am I to argue? I hope it takes you somewhere other than being easily offended and being even more seperated from a pretty great country. I don’t see how it will, but then, as I’ve indicated, I might be a fool. So good luck.

145

My God can we stop with the Nazi schtick already. Are the Anglophones supposed to be the Nazis in the situation or is it the Quebecois? All of the scenarios you have supplied Elenfair rely on an understanding that one party has deeply wronged the other. I would love to know who plays the role of the oppressed here and who is the oppressor.

To many Americans, the audience for whom this comedy bit was intended, the enmity between the two groups in Canada is inexplicable. We find it odd that a country with such a generally peaceful populace gets bent out of shape over the font size on signs. I would hope that no one is suggesting that there are two parties analagous to the Jews and the Nazis or China and Tibetans.

It just isn’t relevant to me that the Quebecois feel like the Jews in Germany or Tibetans. They aren’t similar by any reasonable standard. Comedy can break down barriers by making some of the differences sound just as silly as they really are.

146

Strangely enough, no. Most francophones (outside of Quebec) are perfectly or at least functionally bilingual. In Ontario, we’re expected to perform (in english and english lit) at the same level as anglophones from grade 8 on.

English students surprisingly rarely master french or even speak it at all. Yet, they too had french at school. For the same amount of time we had english in elementary school. And in highschool. Why is it that we are required to be functionally bilingual, but they’re not?

There’s a movement of anglophones in Canada that is pushing for tearing down of some bilingual institutions - like in the public service - because they claim they can’t get some government jobs where bilingualism is a requirement. From working with the Treasury board, I can tell you that the anglophones who worked there spoke little or no french, whereas all the francophones, regardless of their age, were able to function in BOTH languages. Why is it required of us, but not of them? Government officers are supposed to be bilingual, at least functionally so.

Is it because french is harder to learn? I understand that environment has something to do with it - we have no choice but to use english in many daily circumstances, but the anglophones have nowhere where they are going to HAVE to use the french they know. They’re not toally immersed… but then, explain to me why so many Montreal Anglophones barely speak any french when they are quite nicely immersed in the francophone world?

The Queen’s Study on the double cohort revealed interesting cultural identity issues in francophones in Ontario - most anglophone kids’ parents do not speak french, nor do they encourage their kids to take the classes, or even really give them the motivation to speak french as a second language. See, you don’t NEED the french. So you don’t REALLY have to work at it. It’s like… Home Ec, ya know? Useful, sure, but it’s no biggie if you forget it.

For us, it’s English or don’t get a job.

Double standards galore.

I’m terribly sorry about your grandmother, CheekyMonkey. That’s a horrible thing for anyone to go through. I wish there was a better cultural understanding, on both sides.

147

Read the thread. Nazi references were in to answer to jarbaby’s comment about jokes about germans/nazi’s not being funny.

As for the rest, well, silly is in the eye of the beholder. When a group does feel oppressed, and HAS been oppressed, I think they’re entitled to be awfully bitter and ask for some form of restitution, or at least SOME respect for their culture, language and heritage.

148

I’m late to this thread, so I probably shouldn’t be posting this. Unfortunately for you folks, I’ve had a couple of after work beers on a Friday afternoon/evening and I’m feeling uninhibited. I should probably also mention that I was the author of a “french Canadian” thread a couple of months ago in this very forum that went very far in a very bad direction in which I didn’t intend for it to go. Eh, you know what I mean. Anyway, here we go:

You people are all insane.

It’s Triumph the Insult Whatever Dog for crying out loud. The entire point of the gag is that it’s a friggin’ puppet that deliberately goes and tries to be as offensive as possible. If there was some guy standing up and saying this crap, it wouldn’t be funny. It’s funny because we’re laughing at the puppet and not it’s targets. It’s funny because that puppet is wrong and stupid, see?

I really don’t understand why you people want to expand the argument to disapproval of race/gender/nationality/whatthehellever jokes. I further fail to understand why this thread has devolved into stupid arguments about “what jokes do you find acceptable.”

Let it go. This won’t end up anywhere good. Not the least reason is because, based on my thirty-six years of my cross-border experience, Canadians in general have an enormous chip on their shoulder regarding the US.

149

Let me clarify that I understand that there is much more to the problems in Canada than road signs. Elevating it to the level of Nazi Germany or Tibet is more deeply offensive than any puppet could ever be.

150

“Bye Bye 1995” (New Year’s Eve show), on SRC - government funded. Sketch about all of the stupid anglos on a plane coming to Montreal for the pro-Canada rally. Anglos tricked into getting off the plane in mid-flight. HA HA HA HA.

In my experience, having lived here 12 years, it’s very, very acceptable to make fun of anglophones. De rigueur even. (Pardon the irony.)

151

As an anglophone originally from Toronto, with a Québeçois husband, now living in California, and who SAW the skit, I lost total respect for Conan… And I was a fan for a long time… even of Triumph…

It’s funny, cuz I was amazed at just how much Canadian stuff he managed to get into the first show in Toronto… I thought he was doing great on the first night…

I think if he had been making fun of the Quebec government, or Jean Charest, it would have been acceptable, although even then, it might have been in bad taste, but yelling at French people in Québec to speak English was totally disgusting… (In fact, it would have been just as insulting anywhere in Canada)

I kept thinking it was like a Christian going to an orthodox Jewish neighbourhood and screaming at Hassidic Jews to stop wearing traditional clothes… And thinking it’s funny… :frowning:

Or maybe going to Chinatown in San Francisco and screaming at Chinese people walking by to speak English…

I was also totally ashamed to be from Toronto listening to those losers cheering in the Toronto audience…

Survivor

152

Elly, sweetie, honey…

I know you were talking about francophones outside of Quebec. But everything you just said applies to us anglos IN Quebec.

153

That’s very true, LaurAnge - that being said, you are NOT expected to be totally bilingual by the time you leave the CEGEP, are you? Like, you know, to get your high school diploma, even?

My friends Dora and Diala, who came to Ontario for their last two years of highschool (from Lebanon) had to learn english AND PASS THE REQUIRED HIGHSCHOOL ENGLISH CLASSES (which were the SAME curriculum as the anglophone students followed in highschools in Ontario) to graduate from highschool.

Surprisingly perhaps, with lots of coaching, they did it, and they both speak with functional fluency.

NOW - all this being said - there LOTS of functionally bilingual anglophones in Quebec. There are also those who refuse to learn, and who can get by just fine (and work!)… There were quite a few teaching on the McGill campus when I was there…

154

I think this is my whole point. Laur’s last post. Everyone’s trying very vehemently to show how their side was more put upon. There ARE assholes on both sides.

Just like not everyone who likes Triumph is a twit.

i’m sorry that the skit upset you. I’m sorry it lead to such a giant falling out. Most of all I’m sorry I ever opened my fucking mouth. I obviously don’t know much about quebec except from what I learned from my Ontario-an-ite-ish boss, and he painted a terrible picture, just like you would paint a terrible picture of those from Ontario or Newfoundland.

All I’ve ever known of Canada has been wonderful, I don’t like seeing this side.

Anyway, sorry for all of it. I understand you’re offended and I’m sorry for that.

155

Heck yes! We are required to pass a government french exam to graduate high school. To be fair, I think some people have the option of taking one designed for anglophones, but most people at my school took the Langue Maternelle exam.

I think that that’s a very very limited subset of people. The only places I can think of where one can work without needing French are an eglish school, or telemarketing to Americans.

156

A bit of a hijack from the discussion of the francophone situation in Canada, but…

I find the Québécois’ cries of racism interesting, given that Jacques Parizeau, then leader of the separatist “YES” side of the 1995 referendum, gave the following concession speech (bolding mine):

Who’s “them,” then?

Just food for thought. As I’ve said here before, being an oppressed minority doesn’t give you a carte blanche to oppress other minorities. I’m still aghast that it’s socially acceptable here to refer to a person of Asian origin as “le p’tit chinois” or “la p’tite chinoise.”

And every single separatist I’ve ever met has eventually revealed themself as anti-semitic and racist. Maybe I’ve just been unlucky.

157

You are absolutely right, jar. 100%. It’s taken me a long time to even get to this point, where I’ve been defending the Quebecois for the most part. I’m used to feeling like they’re the bad guys, and I have grown up with a LOT of prejudice against seperatists and seperatist policies. I really am working towards balance.

I’m really sorry this whole day of arguing happened, too. I think there’s been a regrettable amount of misunderstanding on both sides. And I think maybe a lot of people were walking into it without knowing exactly how vehemently those of us from Quebec were bound to respond.

No hard feelings?

158

not from me. But I know I/ve already lost more than a couple friends.

Friday the fucking 13th. It’s been fucking awesome.

159

Bah, friends can argue over politics without killing one another. And this is a… particularly difficult topic to get into, too, since it’s one that revolves around cultural identity. Well, identity in general.

For example, Laur and I very rarely talk politics because our views are quite different. Doesn’t mean I don’t still think she’s… quick. :wink:

So - relax. Have a poutine. It’s the Quebec traditional dish, and its creator died today (like today today.)

So go deep fry some fries, toss on some rubbery cheese curds, and pour on some hot-chicken-style brown gravy…

160

Just as a bystander, I knew not to touch this, having roomed with a guy from New Brunswick during the separation vote, but there’s no reason for an American unfamiliar with the politics to know how deep the feelings run.

And I don’t think you’ve lost a single friend, Jarbaby. This will blow over and be forgotten by the time spring arrives. Yiu are far too sweet for anyone to hold a grudge over freakin’ Conan.

And this is coming from a guy who’s had Jodi and Beagledave chewing his ass all day like it was Doublemint gum.

Hugs to all! Etreintes a tous!