Originally posted by TopazAntares
Oh, I know what a tuque is, Topaz. It’s took that was causing me problems.
How about giving her a chance to learn some Canadian history? Things like the construction of the CNR, Vimy Ridge, the FLQ crisis, Billy Bishop, Louis Riel, and yes, as trite as it may seem, the war of 1812? She can’t be learning much of that in a U.S. grade school, except possibly the Battle of New Orleans.
Or how about the Group of Seven? Or some Canadian authors, like Margaret Atwood? (We’ll save Robertson Davies for later.) Or how about some music by Stan Rogers?
Looking back on this list I’ve just written, I realize that I may be asking a lot of a four-year-old…but she’s going to grow up, and there’s an awful lot about Canada that she’s never, ever going to learn in a U.S. school unless you bring it to her attention. Just a suggestion.
And if I may be allowed to rant here for a moment…there’s more to Canadian culture than moose and geese and Labatt’s beer and the letters u and zed. A lot more.
There’s more I want to say, but I need to get to work, and lolagranola has said most of it for me already in her last post or two. But for the record: I’m a Canadian ex-pat, living in California. I’ve had a year and a half to experience the land of Stars and Stripes first-hand, and given the choice I would pick Canada any day of the week. And that’s not just a hypothetical: I will be given the choice in another few years when I graduate, and I fully intend to vote with my feet then.
Originally posted by Math Geek
Heard you were homesick, Math Geek. Did you get the electricity we sent?
Okay St. Atilla I was just making sure you knew.
snuggles deeper in her bunnyhug and wonders why the school is cold today
Oh we don’t? May I ask, is that a royal we or a collective we? If it’s the latter then may I ask how many we’s you are speaking on behalf of? Would that be a majority of Canadians or just people in your household?
You know, you’ve taken much of the joy out of this tongue-in-cheek light discussion with your holier than thou attitude. Thanks very much.
So because I think that in general Americans show more pride in their country that Canadians do in theirs’ means that I don’t have pride as a Canadian?
Well, I do. But not because of the CBC and the priviledge of paying higher tax rates.
Yes, I’ve been lured from the true path of Canadian virtue by the evil god of American money. Because real Canadians don’t really need any money - the gov’t will provide us with all the comforts necessary for our lives.
Quit being such a hypocrite lola.
Yes, I think I’ve seen you on CBC waving that flag.
What I’ve been trying to convey (evidently with little success) is that Canadian culture is often defined by Canadians as what is most in contrast to American culture. That is not a good way to define an identity of a country and of a people. What I’m saying is that in the ways that count most (i.e. cultural, economical, political) we Canadians aren’t that different from Americans.
The U.S. healthcare system is one of the best in the world. Though we do hear horror stories, I believe that they are the exception rather than the rule. As far as I know there are no healthcare epidemics in the US of any kind. Nobody is refused urgent medical treatment regardless of whether or not they have insurance coverage. It is not an ideal system but it seems to be improving. Many states have laws that prohibit the insurance companies from denying policies to anybody regardless of their health status.
I don’t like guns. I’m not comfortable with the idea of my neighbours having guns. I’d rather criminals didn’t have access to guns either but there seems little we can do to prevent that even in Canada. The US culture is rapidly changing in this respect as well. The changes may be stalled with this administration but they are moving in a generally positive direction due to mounting social pressure advocating the abolishment of personal firearms among civilians. I know that many pro-gun people believe that such a stance is the end of the free world but I think it’s going to make for a kinder and gentler America. It’s just going to take a significant amount of time to get used to this idea.
Some of the best schools in the world are right here in the US. MIT, Harvard, Yale, etc… Most schools offer grants and loans to students. Accomplished students get scholarships. There are plenty of great state sponsored (non-private) schools as well which are no more expensive than Canadian Universities. As a whole, the US has lots of very well educated people and is graduating more every year.
As for the air that wafts across the border, well, the US has to work on their polution and smugness reduction rules. But so does Canada. Hamilton is a cesspool of heavy metal polution that has poisoned lake Ontario and Canadians in general are pretty smugg about not being confused for American while abroad - take yourself as an example.
Well given that I posted this in IMHO I thought I would be allowed a certain amount of leeway with respect to making more sweeping generalizations than I would in GD. Mia Culpa…
I don’t believe I’ve said anything negative about Canada as a country (well, I think the taxes are too high but show me a person who wouldn’t rather pay less taxes). Canada is very much deserving of high praise for it’s standard of living and it’s upstanding citizenry. I simply speculated that Americans show more obvious pride in their country than Canadians do in their’s. Also the source of American pride seems to be their achievements while the source of Canadian pride seems to be (in large part but not exclusively) that we are not Americans. Whether or not that is a good thing is up to each individual to decide. I think American pride has both good and bad aspects and have said as much. Why you have personally chosen to take me to task for my opinions escapes me at the moment.
As to all this talk of ‘selling out’ lola I think quite a few Canadians would do so I know I probably would given the chance. I also know my Dad and his girlfriend would probably do so as well from the conversations I’ve had with them. As Susan said not that long ago “In the States if you have enough gumption and are willing to work hard you can get somewhere. Here in Canada the gov’t keeps everyone poor.” I’m only 18 but from what I’ve seen that is the case. Lots of people work hard and never get anywhere. My family is a good example. So I’m going to take computer courses in College and if someone in the States offers me a job… I’ll probably take it.
Oh yeah. Like what? (your list of artists, authors and historical figures not withstanding?)
I’m kidding, kidding. Just don’t get your ire up like lolagranola did. I haven’t the energy to take you both on at once. Especially since I’m mostly playing devil’s advocate here. I’m really not as anti-Canadian as I may seem.
There’s more I want to say, but I need to get to work, and lolagranola has said most of it for me already in her last post or two. But for the record: I’m a Canadian ex-pat, living in California. I’ve had a year and a half to experience the land of Stars and Stripes first-hand, and given the choice I would pick Canada any day of the week. And that’s not just a hypothetical: I will be given the choice in another few years when I graduate, and I fully intend to vote with my feet then.
[/QUOTE]
Well welcome and good luck to you. I have to say that in my first 3 years in the US I said pretty much the same thing you just did and I was working full time, not studying. Let some time pass and start your first job in the states. When you start realizing just how well off you can be financially in the states vs Canada and when/if you start having kids and perhaps Suo Na decides she wants to be a full time mom then you may start singing a different tune. But hey, to each his own. I wish you the best of luck.
As for me. After 9 years, Canada (Toronto) is still home only I’m not in a huge rush to return there anymore. YMMV.
Originally posted by QuickSilver
Come on. You keep going on about how America is great because of this or that, but when you get down to it you can’t decide if these American traits are really good or not. It’s people like you that give Americans the impression that we’re all wusses. “How do you get twenty Canadians out of a pool? Say, ‘okay, everybody, out of the pool.’”
You bet! Most Palestinian whatevers get into the US by sneaking across the Canadian border.
America lets you climb high, to be sure. But the man who climbs twice as high hits the ground twice as hard. At least in Canada we have a safety net.
Quit being a wuss. You want to climb with Americans? Then take the same risks they do. Renounce your Canadian citizenship. You’re not paying into the Canadian safety net; why should you have the privilege of its protection?
You live in America and think like a Canadian. You can’t really claim to be either. What does that make you?
Canadian pride comes with Canadian self confidence. We’re quiet. We don’t need to yell. You only see it on threads like this, and then, yeah, it looks like anti-Americanism.
Quitter. The cultural war has never ended for my family. My kids don’t watch a lot of TV, and what they do watch is mostly Canadian. In my family, I’m winning that war.
Maybe you’ll get interesting unbiased television from corporation sponsored PBS? Oh, never mind, Friends is on…
You’re looking at him, buddy. You’re looking at him. Canada sell out to the US? It’s becoming more and more clear that you just don’t get it.
So you think you can’t be bought, lola?
Ah, join me here on this couch and let me tempt you, my little kumquat.
HAH!
I tempt you with 20000 shares of Amazon.com stock!
looks off stage. Listens
Crap. Well! I can STILL buy her with 50000 shares of Priceline stock! I can even get some from Shatner!
listens off stage again. Frowns
No. Really? Dang! That must have hurt the ol’ Cap, eh?
Hmm…at least we still have Etoys stock, right? Voter.com?
Um. Apple?
Crap.
OK. Will you settle for $20 US and a PlayStation 2?
Dang.
Originally posted by TopazAntares
On a serious note, I’ll have to concede a point to QuickSilver. As long as Canadians define success, happiness, etc. on American terms, we will always feel second place.
I love Canada. Being an American would require trade offs that I have no intention to make.
That said, I think it’s a Good Thing[sup]TM[/sup] that people can choose which country they want to live in, according to how they want to live. In that sense, all these debates are pointless as you’ll obviously love the country you’ve chosen and think it is the best.
I once saw some sage advice on a thread like this, another place, another time. We should recognize what unites us here, on the SDMB. Our discussions speak towards our similarities, not our differences. We should not fight about who is best, be it French vs. English, Canada vs. America, North vs. South, but be one in love and understanding and face, together, the true enemy:
Those miserable, fat, Belgian bastards.
Wow…I haven’t seen this much anti-Canada sentiment since the South Park movie!
I must say I’m surprised. Aside from Celine Dion & Alanis Morrissette, I can’t think of a reason to hate Canada. Even the French people there are friendly.
No, it’s the laughably small Canadian military that given Americans the impression that we’re all wusses. Note that I didn’t say that the actual Canadian military personel is a bunch of wusses. I’m told they gave those Somalians some what-for…
See even the poor displaced Palestinians prefer America to Canada. Go figure.
Would that be the welfare safety net you are speaking of? I dare say that neither the Canadian nor American welfare safety net is designed to be a comfy hammock. I would not like to argue a case where one is significantly worse than the other.
The only protection currently offered to me by my Canadian citizenship/passport is that I may not be the first hostage shot if my plane is aprehended by Iraqi terrorists.
I’m a Canadian citizen, not resident. I don’t get any perks from Canada. Your hard earned tax dollars don’t benefit me in the least so you may sleep well tonight.
I think they call it a free agent.
Funny, my kids only watch kids PBS shows and they are mostly Canadian as well… Arthur, Dragon Tales, Rolie Polie Olie…
Little known fact: televisions in the US also have an “off” switch. We use it quite regularly in our home as our way of sensoring tv network drivel.
Oh I get it. I started this entire topic as a light hearted observation, remember? Now I’m scarmbling around playing devil’s advocate because my fellow Canadians like to demonize America to make themselves feel… well, more Canadian, I guess.
You mean I finally made a cogent enough argument to convice someone of something?!
Yipeee!!! This is indeed a special day. I’m going to stop posting for a while before I ruin it for myself… 
It’s a shame because they make a wonderful waffle. But if we must, we must.
Why did I take you to task for it? Well, you are one who started the post.
I also had issues with these comments:
Are you sure???
You’ve insulted my country and me. You don’t even seem to like Canada.
I think I’m going to try to stay out of this discussion from now on. Last year, I went head to head with one of your patriotic Americans who believed that anyone, and I mean ANYONE, who did not prefer the US to any other country in the world needed their head examined. I’m pretty sure that if you took an extensive poll around the world, you would find a healthy percentage would not list the US as the number one country they would like to live in. I’m tired of trying to convince people that I don’t actually want to move, and furthermore, it’s not a reliable method of diagnosing insanity.
For some reason, flag waving type patriotism is an honourable trait in an American, and a mockable one in Canada. I think that you are brilliantly demonstating why Canadians are generally a little quieter about their patriotism. I, of course, am an exception on that one.
I’m glad you’re happy where you are, but please try and see how your comments could be easily taken as insults.
lola wanders off in search of some good painkillers for her recent headache
Note the ‘u’? How about noting both of them? Or is thinking and typing at the same time too much to ask? I guess from your rant that it is.
I’m a Brit, unfortunately, but the USA is my spiritual home. It’s a wonderful country, and I’m not the least bit surprised that most Americans are damned proud of their country. I would be too if I lived there.
Originally posted by ianzin
Leave it to some stuffy, pretentious English pansy to count the canonical u’s. “Well, I’m feeling rather anal today, James, so I think I’ll ignore most of that message and just concentrate on the last little bits.”
Never got over losing the colonies, did you, Carleton? Pining for New England 'cause you figured it’s “improved,” too? You’ll fit right in considering your teeth look like a pile up on the Jersey Turnpike.
Well, what are you waiting for, you inscrutable, pasty pantywaist? Move your skinny ass. Afraid the Yanks will notice that the London fog is thickest 'round your head? America may be your spiritual home, Cadbury, but your head’s a landed immigrant up your ass.
Uurgh. Look what you’ve made me do. Things were turning around so nicely, 'til you came along. Clear off, you obsequious, malcontented git! The Belgians are getting away!
Forget the electricity; send Timbits! Or convince somebody to open a Harvey’s down here…
Well, I’m afraid you did get my ire up this morning; my earlier post was a response to that. I’ve cooled down since then, but I think my point stands. Namely: you claim that Canadians don’t have national pride, or that if they do that it comes from being not-American. But you don’t seem to be aware of the many things that Canadians do have to be proud of, that don’t stem from being not-American. I hope I’ve reminded you what some of those things are, and that there are Canadians who don’t need to sneer at Americans to feel proud of themselves.
As for your other contention, that I may start singing a different tune after I have kids and settle down…all things are possible, I suppose. If someone offered me a million US dollars a year to study hyperbolic three-manifolds somewhere in the States, I’d probably accept (after picking my jaw off the floor and looking around for the hidden camera). But it would take an awful lot to hold me here. This country I’m living in has some straaaange political views…
(But by all that’s right and decent, I swear I am never going to raise kids in Los Angeles.)
I loved that movie! The idea that a Canadian invasion of the U.S. could get all the way to Colorado…it warms the heart 
…I would like to recommend a book called, ‘Why I Hate Canadians’ by Will Ferguson. You will really enjoy this book, it is quite serious and quite humourous at the same time.
I would suggest to the OP, that what you are trying to project onto all of Canada is only a reflection of how you feel you are different from Americans. It demonstrates only how you view your own culture and has no significance to any reality for anyone else.
It should be clear to you from the others responses here that what you view as the norm (for Canadian overt acts of patriotism) is nothing more than your own subjective view projected onto an unassuming Canadian public.
I’m glad you feel your health care is up to Canadian standards, and I pray that nothing catostrophic happens to your family.The difference is not often apparent when it’s all about tonsilitis and strep throat.When it comes right down to organ transplants and other very expensive procedures, you may find your great health insurance not all its cracked up to be.
As for flags on packs, in all honesty, in 10+ years of travelling the world, easily one half of the people I encountered with maple leafs on their packs were Americans. Trying to avoid the reputation of the ugly American.Concerned they’d be singled out and shot in some tight spot or other. They usually only confessed this when face to face with a Canadian wanting to know where they were from. Personally I have never worn a flag on my pack, I’ve never felt the need.
I am proud to be a Canadian and do not define myself within the confined parameters of how unamerican I am.
Not for any amount of money would I consider moving from this land.
My country is not perfect nor is it peopled by better people than any other nation.
I think most Canadians feel that pride should be reserved for something you have achieved. Proud as we may be to count ourselves as Canadians we are intelligent enough to know that we didn’t choose to be Canadians (well, most of us didn’t anyway), it’s an accident of birth, like being tall or short or bald or blonde. I mean, how worked up can you get over an accident of birth?
Be proud if you wish but please leave the rest of us to celebrate our culture as we please, in our own, quiet, polite, understated Canadian way.
I’d like to hear about these, actually. I’m aware of the benefits of the well used “eh”, and I’ve even adopted it myself. I’m sure my family is laughing at me…
We have different experiences here. In Boston, two feet of snow is no problem. I’m given to understand that 3 inches constitues a “snow emergency” in Toronto. [Speaking of which, why call the city “T.O.”? New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, the District of Columbia (not a city, but YKWIM) … all are two words, so a two-letter acronym* makes sense. “Toronto” is just one word…]
*I know it’s not an acronym in the strictest sense of the word.
lolagranola, thanks for the link!
[sub]Stick my head in the sand? Ignore raging controversy? Don’t mind if I do…[/sub]
True, but there are also plenty of Europeans who take the piss out of Canadians precisely because of that maple leaf thing. And the same goes for Kiwis who desperately try to distinguish themselves from Australians. There probably are a few people here who will treat you better because of it, but there are far more who really don’t care, and who find it anywhere from amusing to pathetic that Canucks and Kiwis do this.
Personally I’ve never understood the desire to identify yourself so clearly as a tourist - apart from being a bit like holding up a sign that says “Over Here, Muggers and Pickpockets”, the simple fact is that the more you try to blend in with the natives the better treatment you’ll get - regardless of your accent.