Now that it looks like I’ll be able to get one, I’m looking for recommendations for specific brands and stuff to be looking for, as I’m sure prices are going to crash now that people decide since they’re still going to remain legal that they don’t need all of the three or four they bought.
I want it to be close to the military version as possible: iron sights, etc.
As cheap as possible while still getting something decent.
I’d prefer to buy from a company that refuses to do business with New York law enforcement, as well as avoiding Bushmaster unless they move out of New York state.
I take it Colts are good but wildly overpriced?
Any ideas how long until prices come down? I was at a gun show last weekend and prices were about double and attendance was about 4X the one before the happening out east.
Intended use is just to have one for the sake of having one, also for occasional trips to the range so I don’t need something super expensive or super accurate.
You may want an A4 style gun. But consider a mid-length forearm gas system instead. The gas port location of the short A4 carbine handgrip results in a bit of overgassing when combined with legal-for-civilian length barrels.
The mil-spec front stocks/hand guard/heat shield are slightly less accurate that aftermarket free floating forends. You also need a special tool (not too expensive) or superhuman dexterity to put them on and take them off.
The mil-sped rifles usually have carry-handle uppers, while civilian guns are often “flat top”. The flat top style gives far more sight options than the carry handle, including adding a carry handle if that is what you want. A gun with a carry handle on a flat-top upper might be slightly heavier.
Flat top uppers are usually paired with rail type gas blocks. The mil version has the front sight built in which is in the way if you want to use a scope. You can clamp a sight fairly close to the mil sight onto a plain gas block.
2)CMMP, Rock River Arms are decent. The S&W-M&P guns seem fine (I use their lowers on my two ARs) Not impressed with DPPM or Bushmaster.
3)Not sure who sells what where. Ron Barrett has been pretty vocal about telling California that their money isn’t green enough to buy his guns. He makes a high-end AR: http://www.barrett.net/firearms/rec7 But it is not very mil-issuish.
The colts are expensive. They also use some different size pins so that other brands of uppers and lowers don’t interchange with Colt. (Check me on this, my info may be dated)
I did some research. It appears Colt is regarded as the best, and the only way to get an AR-15 since it’s a trademark, but it’s really too good and expensive for casual use or just to have one.
Looks like the Stag model 1 is something close to what I’m looking for, Backordered for a year of course, but that might change or people might start dumping them “like new, never out of box” pretty soon.
I take it most of what’s out there are actually M4 clones, even though people call then “AR-15s”.
I like my Colts. I also like the Bushmasters I built. ‘As close to military’ covers a lot of ground. For example, I’m going to build a couple of Colt Model 604 clones when the receivers come in. The Colt AR-15 Model SP1 is about as close as you can get commercially to a Model 604. The other rifles in my collection were built to be as close as possible to the military counterparts of their eras. For example, one Bushmaster is a clone of an M16-A2. The other is a clone of an M4 with the integral carry handle, brass deflector, and round forward-assist plunger. Another carbine (for which a more period-accurate lower receiver is on order) has the M16-A1 upper receiver with the windage-only rear sight and the teardrop forward-assist plunger and no brass deflector.
Pretty much anything you get nowadays is going to be expensive. I’d suggest browsing gunbroker.com. You can buy a rifle and have it shipped to your local dealer for pickup. At least, that will give you an idea of the prices.
If you want something of quality, buy a mil-spec upper that is fully assembled from a quality manufacturer. These are known as “barreled upper assembles” or “upper receiver groups” or something like that. Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM) has the best reputation, but you pay for it. Palmetto State Armory (PSA) also makes mil-spec uppers but at better prices.
The manufacturer of the lower isn’t all that important.
I have an E.A. Co (Essential Arms) J-15 lower receiver that I bought just before California instituted its ban. I haven’t researched it, but from what little that’s crossed by my eyes it doesn’t appear to be especially well-regarded. That said, I’ve had zero trouble with it. Granted, I’m more of a collector than a shooter. It’s had several hundred rounds through it, but that’s nothing to a modern firearm. My only complaint is that the markings are raised instead of stamped, and I would rather have stamped markings. The finish is fine; a dark grey phosphate. It’s currently on the ‘M16-A1 carbine’, that will get a more authentic lower receiver after (I’ve been told) August.
Is the value of an SP1 relatively high compared to other AR-15s because it’s especially collectable, or just because it’s a Colt? I couldn’t find it on Colt’s site so I assume it’s long out of production, none of their current products looks interesting to me. I do have an account at Gunbroker, I bought some C&R stuff off their and a friend of my father’s works in a gun store and will do a transfer for $20.00
I did kick around the idea of building my own, but I have the mechanical ability of a drunk chimp (as my numerous GQ threads an attest too.)
I don’t really have an interest in putting a scope on it, if I were to scope anything I’d probably get a cheap Mosin/Nagant 91/30, for a while at least you could get them with a Russian scope attached (but I’ve heard not period correct).
Colt stopped making the SP1 Sporter around the time of California’s Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989. (Note: IIRC.) That ban named the Colt AR-15 specifically, so an easy way around the law was to simply remove the bayonet lug to comply with the law, and change the name. Many people want the discontinued model because it’s a ‘real’ AR-15™. Others want one because it’s an actual Colt. Still others want it because it is likely to be grandfathered in if any new legislation passes. (I think it’s likely that AR-15 style rifles made since then would be grandfathered in.) So there is a little premium on the SP1 Sporters.
MSRP on current Colts, from what I’ve seen, are not particularly egregious. Bushmasters are fine rifles, and seem to run a little cheaper than Colts. Basically all lower receivers nowadays have a ‘fence’ around the magazine release button. Unless you want a 604 replica, which didn’t have the fence, you can put just about any upper receiver you want on the lower and it will be ‘military correct’. You can buy, say, a Bushmaster complete lower receiver from gunbroker, and then buy a barrelled upper receiver assembly as Crafter_Man says. M16-A1? A2? No forward assist? Flat top? Go wild. You can get a barrelled upper, and then get a different upper and just swap it out. You’ll need an armorer’s tool, which costs about $30 or so.
Building an AR-15 is easy. They just go together. You can see videos online. When I was building them before, before the Internet, I just looked at a schematic in Small Arms Of The World to see how they went together.
I recently bought a Palmetto State Armory AR-15. They seem to be pretty well-respected, but are not as well-known as certain other brands, which I think is one reason I got a pretty good deal on it, despite the continuing hysteria. They are a not one of the “fancy” brands, but they do have all the mechanical features that are desirable in a high-quality AR - a chrome-lined barrel, staked castle nut and gas key, mil-spec components, etc. A step above Bushmaster, CORE, DPMS, etc.
I would not be so certain that prices will drop quickly. It is not just AR-15’s that are in demand, it is pretty much all firearms, including things like 1911 pistols which are unlikely to ever be banned. I think a lot of people who previously took their 2nd amendment rights for granted have now been made quite aware that there is a very real possibility that the liberals will ultimately succeed in taking their rights away, if not today, then at some point in the future, and I think the resulting increase in activity in the hobby will continue for a long time.
Anyway - why do you want an AR-15 that is “as close to the military version as possible”? The civilian market has made enormous improvements to the AR platform in terms of ergonomics, flexibility, accuracy, etc. I would definitely get a “flat-top” AR as pictured in the link above, with a mounting rail on the upper receiver, as opposed to the “military” version with a permanent carry handle/iron sight. You can always get iron sights for the rail, as well as a carry handle, etc., but then you have the flexibility to add optics later if you want.
My understanding is that the Colt rifles are solid, well-built guns, but no more so than any other reputable manufacturer, and rather expensive because of the name.
I’d say that would be my answer too. All my other weapons are former martial arms, the oldest being an M1917 and the newest being an SKS-45 dated 1953 (Soviet, so with the infamous floating firing pin- I understand there are kits to fix that but I haven’t done so, I did take it apart and made sure it wasn’t rusted nor gummed up). The SKS is the only intermediate powered weapon I have so the thought was to kind of continue that direction.
Also, the SP1 looks nice to me, the long barrel and the handle looks better than the flat topped M4 clones to me.
I’m collecting parts for a ‘retro’ build (actually two builds) based on the NDS-601 lower receiver (currently on backorder, but my order is in). You can pair it with their NDS-604 non-FA upper receiver, which is cut for the 601 take-down pin, or use an M16 or AR-15 upper receiver from elsewhere and use a ‘Chicago bolt’ as used on the Colt. Prices for such a build are variable. For example, you can get a barrel assembly for $300, or you can get a NOS Colt SP1 barrel assembly for $700. Lower receiver parts kits are a $60 item, but they are selling for comfortably over $100 right now. Just ballparking it, here’s an idea of the cost of a ‘retro’/SP1 build:
Lower receiver, $160
Upper receiver, $160
Bolt carrier and bolt assembly, $250
Rear sight assembly, $40
Ejection port cover assembly, $40
Charging handle, $30
Barrel assembly w/sight, barrel nut, and slip ring (approx.), $400
Gas tube and pin, $30
Lower receiver parts, including grip, $100
Handguards, $40
Buffer tube, $60
Buffer/buttstock screw, $6
Buffer spring, $8
Buffer, $30
Buttstock, $50
So right around $1,400 to build your own. You can get parts cheaper if you are willing to wait for availability and for the hysteria to die down, or you can pay more to get them now. Or you may get lucky. I got a NOS barrel assembly for $250, and NOS handguards for $25. Or you can buy a complete lower receiver assembly for $500 - $700 and a complete upper receiver assembly for $700 and just pin them together. (Note: 20" barrelled uppers seem to be scarce.)
$1,400 is a lot; but it’s about $500 than many AR-15s are going for, and $1,000 or more less than some are. And you can build the gun you want. Again, construction is not at all complicated. Some things may not be easy (e.g., fiddling with the tiny roll pin in the rear sight), but it’s not complicated.
So TTFWIW, and use it as a ballpark baseline to judge complete rifles.