What are all the movements between allegro and rondo called?

[davidmich]

Hi,
What are all the movements between allegro and rondo called?

I look forward to your feedback
davidmich

[panache45]

There’s no “rule” about this sort of thing, but in general the movements are:

1. Allegro
2. Andante
3. Menuetto or Rondo
4. Allegro

[engineer_comp_geek]

Moderator Action

Moving thread from General Questions to Cafe Society.

[Thudlow_Boink]

@panache45

There’s no “rule” about this sort of thing, but in general the movements are:

1. Allegro
2. Andante
3. Menuetto or Rondo
4. Allegro

I thought the rondo was more likely to be the fourth movement than the third, of a four-movement work.

[davidmich]

That’s what I read recently in “German Genius” by Peter Watson.
“The first movement was generally an allegro, followed by a second, slow movement, terminating with a rondo” (p. 158.). Hence my question.

[Kzbre5m]

@engineer_comp_geek

Moderator Action

Moving thread from General Questions to Cafe Society.

I think that was a very short cadenza? Certainly was a solo movement.

[Prof.Pepperwinkle]

from Wikipedia:

Different forms of music that were established during the common practice period have separate conventions about the number of movements required, and their tempo and structure. It was customary for the first movement in a symphony to be allegro and in sonata form, the second andante or adagio, the third a fast scherzo or a Menuett, and the fourth a lively allegro. These conventions were not always strictly followed, however. Examples abound of symphonies from the common practice period that begin or end with a slow movement, or which have three, or even five or more movements. A three-movement version of the symphony form was conventionally used for instrumental concertos, containing only a slow central movement.

[Kzbre5m]

If you look at JS Bach’s Brandenburg Concertos, for example (a German Genius, to be sure), he had different speeds for each movement between concertos. If you have them all at the same speed it gets boring. Even Muzak had this. There might have been “rules” for each musical era, but we’d still be singing Gregorian chants if things didn’t evolve.

Sorry, wanted to add an example.

[Thudlow_Boink]

@davidmich

That’s what I read recently in “German Genius” by Peter Watson.
“The first movement was generally an allegro, followed by a second, slow movement, terminating with a rondo” (p. 158.). Hence my question.

I’m guessing that’s referring to a concerto, which is traditionally in three movements, the last of which is often a rondo.

As for the general question of what the movements of a multi-movement work are called, panache45 did give a good typical example, and Prof. Pepperwinkle’s cite is a good short description. The only universally applicable identifiers are “first movement,” “second movement,” etc. For a multi-movement work in a traditional form, like a symphony, concerto, or sonata, the movements are typically labeled by their tempo (allegro, andante, largo, etc.) or their musical form/type (rondo, minuet, scherzo, etc.), and these labels are most often in Italian but may be in the composer’s own native language (e.g. German). In the case of a programmatic work (like Beethoven’s Pastoral Symphony or Berlioz’s Symphonie fantastique), the movements may have names for what they’re supposed to represent, instead of or in addition to tempo markings.

[fachverwirrt]

AS Thudlow noted, “Allegro” is a tempo and “Rondo” is a form. They describe different things. You can have an allegro rondo. The first movement of a multi movement work is often a “Sonata Allegro” form.

Your typical classical sonata (say, Beethoven’s Sonata Pathetique) will be three movements with the first being a Sonata Allegro, the second a Minuet and Trio (later works may be a Scherzo and Trio), and the third a Rondo (probably also Allegro or Presto). A symphony is more likely to be four movements, with the second being something like a theme and variations.

Note also that the period for this sort of strict formalism was pretty short, being more or less a Classical period thing. By the late Classical (1820s or so) these forms were much more malleable. That’s not to say that later works wouldn’t follow these forms, but there was much more freedom from the Romantic period forward.

[EmilyG]

They’re called different things in different pieces.

Also, not all finales are rondos.

[davidmich]

This is where it gets complicated for me, namely the types of musical arrangements according to their form and tempo. Perhaps someone can suggest a good link that organizes this kind of information well.
davidmich

[EmilyG]

Link to list of tempo markings - this might be a place to start learning.

[Thudlow_Boink]

@davidmich

This is where it gets complicated for me, namely the types of musical arrangements according to their form and tempo. Perhaps someone can suggest a good link that organizes this kind of information well.
davidmich

After a bit of googling, I found the following:

If you just want a reference guide to the different tempo markings, EmilyG’s link is good. And here’s a pdf with short descriptions of some of the basic forms (sonata-allegro, rondo, ternary, theme & variations).

Here are some video lessons, at a fairly basic (maybe even childish) level, with transcripts if you’d prefer to read than to watch/listen:
Tempo: Definition and Uses in Musical Forms
Classical Music Forms: Symphonic, Sonata, Theme and Variation & Rondo Forms

For more detail and sophistication, here’s an Open Yale Course on Listening To Music. The link is to the particular lesson discussing theme and variations and rondo forms; previous lectures discuss sonata-allegro form and other topics.

[davidmich]

Thank you all very much. Very helpful.
davidmich