Crap, my prediction (in post #6) goes unfulfilled. :smack:
Thanks a lot, Der Trihs. Glad I didn’t put any money on it. 
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp]
Crap, my prediction (in post #6) goes unfulfilled. :smack:
Thanks a lot, Der Trihs. Glad I didn’t put any money on it. 
[/QUOTE]
I agreed with the Op, and usually don’t bother to post when I agree.
And sorry that my expressing an opinion offends you.[/sarcasm]
[QUOTE=Thudlow Boink]
If I used the phrase “Christian values/principles,” I would mean the values/principles taught by Christ (and/or by his earliest followers). This would include things like
“But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.”
“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Give, and it will be given to you.”
“Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”
“Do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? … But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.”
"The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves.
“This is my command: Love each other.”
I’d be interested to see how a nation dedicated to such principles would work out in practice.
[/QUOTE]
Those all sound good. The fact remains that JC was not the first one to teach those things and many other religions and other philosophies teach similar values and principles. So, to say, I learned to embrace these values and principles by studying the words of Jesus is perfectly acceptable. It is inaccurate and unacceptable to imply that they are unique or improved upon by associating them with JC.
If half the country lived according to the values and principles of Buddhism, and half lived according to the teachings of JC, it would be hard to tell them apart from just there values and principles. The principles and values would be almost identical and the source teacher a minor detail.
I’m not suggesting living according to the teachings of JC is not a good thing. I’m only saying is that the principles and values put into action are the same regardless of a religious or non religious label and it’s better for us to focus on that and make that part of our language than divisive unnecessary terminology.
[QUOTE=David Simmons]
Well, there is the principle (i.e. fundamental doctrine or assumption) that Jesus was the Son of God and by His death redeemed from sin all those who accept Him. I think that is uniquely Christian.
[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure I’d call that a principle. More like doctrine or dogma,…or even mythology.
I mean principle as in , a code of conduct and the ideals that guide it.
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
I agreed with the Op, and usually don’t bother to post when I agree.
And sorry that my expressing an opinion offends you.[/sarcasm]
[/QUOTE]
Well you should post if you agree. Even if it’s just to startle the OP by doing so. 
Christians are not under the law (of Moses), so there are no hard and fast principals except to follow the leadings of the Spirit of God.
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
Christians are not under the law (of Moses), so there are no hard and fast principals except to follow the leadings of the Spirit of God.
[/QUOTE]
Which hard-and-fast principles apply actually varies wildly according to what sect, flavor, or brand of Christianity you’re operating under, of course.
Part of the reason the definition of “Christian values” is so fuzzy is because the moniker “Christian” is itself a pretty darned wide brush, covering a whole passel of differing and often disagreeing sub-religions.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
He said in the OP that he was looking for something uniquely Christian, so he isn’t moving any goalposts.
[/QUOTE]
Are there any values that are uniquely anything, though?
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
I agreed with the Op, and usually don’t bother to post when I agree. And sorry that my expressing an opinion offends you.[/sarcasm]
[/QUOTE]
Oh, cut it out. I didn’t even have you specifically in mind when I wrote the original post. Naming you was a joking (hence the smiley) response to someone else joking (hence their smiley) that they could guess which atheist. 
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
Christians are not under the law (of Moses), so there are no hard and fast principals except to follow the leadings of the Spirit of God.
[/QUOTE]
Then they should stop tossing those terms about.
And, following the spirit that dwells within is also not unique to Christianity. {not that you said it was. I just wanted to note that}
[QUOTE=Miller]
Are there any values that are uniquely anything, though?
[/QUOTE]
Not that I can think of. That’s why the terms Christian values pr principles are relatively meaningless and adds nothing to an actual discussion of what values and principles we should place in high esteem and attempt to adhere to.
[QUOTE=begbert2]
Which hard-and-fast principles apply actually varies wildly according to what sect, flavor, or brand of Christianity you’re operating under, of course.
[/QUOTE]
While there are defined categories of Christianity, this is just a man made representation of the missions that God has given us. We are part of the body of Christ, a foot does not need to know the duties of the hand.
Answered above
[QUOTE=cosmosdan]
Then they should stop tossing those terms about.
[/QUOTE]
What terms? (I may agree, but I’m not sure what you are talking about)
The scriptures mention many spirits that can indwell people.
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
The scriptures mention many spirits that can indwell people.
[/QUOTE]
Are you saying that when followers of other religions than Christianity feel or follow “the spirit,” that it’s a different spirit? If so, is it an evil one?
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
I think the point (and I agree with this) is that the phrase “Christian values” doesn’t mean anything. If I, as an atheist, believe in helping thepoor and being faithful to my wife, does that mean that compassion for the poor and marital fidelity are “atheist values?”
[/QUOTE]
Putting aside rhetorical or political usages of the term, though, groups can have a set of values associated with them, and when we’re talking about philosophies/religions, they almost always have a system of morality associated with them.
Compassion for the poor and marital fidelity aren’t “atheist values” because there’s no organized atheist group in the same way that there is Christianity. They’re your values, and you’re an atheist, but if I cheated on my wife and kicked poor people, you might say, “Captain Amazing is a bad person.”, but you certainly wouldn’t say, “Captain Amazing isn’t living up to his atheist principles.”. It wouldn’t make much sense. But, back when Pat Robertson, if you remember, said that hurricanes should hit Florida because Disneyworld had that Gay Day, I heard people saying, “That’s not very Christian of him.”, and everybody understood what that meant.
To make an analogy, let’s look at the Boy Scouts. If you remember, “A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.”
Now, it’s true that not all boy scouts have those traits, and it’s certainly true that there are people who aren’t boy scouts who do have those traits. But those are the values of the Boy Scouts…they’re the values the Boy Scouts try to instill in their members. Just because those are the values of another group as well doesn’t mean they aren’t Boy Scout values.
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp]
Are you saying that when followers of other religions than Christianity feel or follow “the spirit,” that it’s a different spirit? If so, is it an evil one?
[/QUOTE]
God is one, the spirit that Jesus released into the world is God, anyone with another spirit is indwelled by a evil spirit.
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
God is one, the spirit that Jesus released into the world is God, anyone with another spirit is indwelled by a evil spirit.
[/QUOTE]
Thank you for that clarification.
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
While there are defined categories of Christianity, this is just a man made representation of the missions that God has given us. We are part of the body of Christ, a foot does not need to know the duties of the hand.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry to imply that you’re not the be-all and end-all of the universe, but I don’t care that you think that all the other variants of Christianity are incorrect. They all think that you’re incorrect too, and that doesn’t stop the lot of you from still all being Christians, and it doesn’t stop the fact that all their contributions to the idea of what christianity is apply just as much as yours (in approximate proportion to the number and loudness of the sect and believers in question).
[QUOTE=begbert2]
Sorry to imply that you’re not the be-all and end-all of the universe, but I don’t care that you think that all the other variants of Christianity are incorrect.
[/QUOTE]
You misunderstand me then. there are different versions of Christianity because we have different missions. Someone who has the gift of evangelism would tend towards a certain category of Christianity to help fill their mission, this category would not be the ideal to those with the gift of prophecy.
[QUOTE=begbert2]
I would say that “Christain Values”, in it’s normal usage, as opposed to the “not exising anywhere else at all ever” condition stated by the OP, still comes across as largely being proscriptions against things: don’t have premarital sex, don’t drink, don’t gamble, don’t do secular work on sunday, don’t be gay, don’t have abortions, don’t not-be-Christian, etc. This “love everyone” stuff may be the values they’re technically supposed to have, but it’s not what they’re selling to the public.
[/QUOTE]
Those are all the flip side of actions that reflect love, though. Be chaste, be faithful, respect your body as it’s the temple of your soul, respect God through a day of rest, be chaste, respect human life from the womb to the tomb, honor God as your God.
And if you think of love as wanting for others what God wants for them, there is no conflict.
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
While there are defined categories of Christianity, this is just a man made representation of the missions that God has given us. We are part of the body of Christ, a foot does not need to know the duties of the hand.
[/QUOTE]
And since you acknowledge much of it is man made, some group who envisions themselves as the hand of god, may be something entirely different.
Can I safely assume you read the OP and other posts before you posted?
That’s true. They also mention plenty of people will worship Jesus with their lips {and with self imposed labels} but not with their hearts and actions. According to my interpretation it is only those who’s actions actually reflect the spirit that have gone beyond claiming the label to actually walking the walk. I also read it to indicate that anyone who life and actions reflect this inner spirit are living it truly regardless of the superficial labels they choose or others impose on them.