What are some ways to disarm a knive-wielding hijacker?

In My Humble Opinion
1

After hearing about the heroic actions of [“http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=86796”]Jeremy Glick and the other unnamed passengers who attempted to overpower the hijackers yesterday, how many of you would sit in your chairs if you knew what was happening? How would you stop them? Attack with fists flying?

I was thinking to myself, of all the legs that I have flown this year(over 50), 80% of them I was sitting in first class. That would put me right in the face of everything, a possible key player in an attempt to disarm a hijacker. What would I do to stop them?

On some flights I had my Leatherman tool, which can be opened with two or three blades at once to become an extremely deadly weapon, but I do not always remember to bring my knife. What with all of the new rules and regulations being imposed, what are the chances that I will be allowed to bring it? If I wanted to I would have to check it in my luggage, which I rarely ever do.

Maybe I could rip off my tray or the toilet seat and effectively use it as a shield or weapon.

I could stick a napkin in an bottle of gin and wield it as a molotov cocktail(anything to create a disturbance).

I could break a wine glass(sometimes served in first) and it could be equally as lethal as any knife or boxcutter.
A morbid question that could possibly be of aid to any would-be hijackers, but is there anything I can use/bring on a plane to defend myself?

2

Jeremy Glick and other unnamed passenger(s)

3

It’s real close quarters stuff and not a fair fight. I’m a fan of throwing a handful of anything at the face, when they flinch, kick the kneecap as hard as you can. Hard alcohol in the eyes will impair vision. Even if they blink, it will drip down in the eyes. Do your best to take out one or both eyeballs.

Once a hijacker is down, make sure they stay down forever as you don’t want a remote control device activated.

Get fellow passengers to join in. Especially if you can maybe catch a hijacker part way down the isle, and signal/coordinate someone in a back row to come up behind.

It will probably be difficult to carry a leatherman on board after this.

4

In bushido there is a strategy which begins with death. If I can fool that sucker into sticking his knife into me, someone else can ace him, now that he is disarmed. Failing the assistance of another, I have to steel myself to plan a killing blow I can deliver with a knife in my guts. Harder, but still possible.

Tris

“Embrace death resolutely, to gain victory.” Unknown

5

Why, that’s how I dealt with every bully who picked on me in school :slight_smile:

My suggestion for going after someone in any fight (if they are armed with a small weapon or not), is to resign yourself to the fact you may die.

Then grapple them. Don’t go for a flying leap or anything. Walk swiftly, and try to get them in a bear hug, or try to wrap both your arms around his weapon arm.

If you’re untrained, this is probably the most effective move you can do.

Oh, and for what it’s worth, I tend to wear steel-toed shoes all the time, even when flying.

6

At one point I knew how to disarm someone with a knife. Now I think I would have to say, hang on … ummmm … nope … can you just hold your arm out like this, I’m just trying to figure something out … ahhhh, great. Thanks.

How many people are thinking of taking self defence courses? How many people will sit by when terrorists take over planes?

No matter how I might forget how to do the fancy moves, I know how to punch and kick effectively. Forget fighting fair, be as underhanded as possible.

But as a girl, my traditional role will be to stand by while the guys grappel with the bad guys and wait for an opening where I can smash a vase down on their head.

Oh and I’ll never be the useless female who gets caught by the bad guys that is held hostage. And if I am … get the f***ers.

Li

7

Gay passenger may have foiled hijackers

Tom Musbach, Gay.com / PlanetOut.com Network
Wednesday, September 12, 2001

Amid sketchy reports about the crash of United Airlines Flight 93 in Pennsylvania on Tuesday, friends and relatives of a gay passenger on the flight believe he may have tried to thwart the plane’s hijackers.
Before the crash, Thomas Burnett, of San Ramon, Calif., phoned his wife and said that he and two other passengers were prepared to take action against the men who had taken control of the plane, which was en route to San Francisco from Newark, N.J.
“I know we’re all going to die - there’s three of us who are going to do something about it,” he told his wife, according to the San Francisco Chronicle.
Mark Bingham, 31, a public relations executive, also made a call from the plane. He told his mother, Alice Hoglan, about three men who claimed to have a bomb before the phone connection failed.
What happened between those phone calls and the plane’s nose-dive into a wooded field near Pittsburgh is still a matter of speculation. There were no survivors of the crash.
Counterintelligence experts speculated that the plane was headed toward a Washington landmark before it crashed. Moments before the tragedy, three other hijacked planes, also traveling from the East Coast to California, destroyed the World Trade Center in New York and a portion of the Pentagon in Washington, D.C.
“This was the only flight of the four that did not reach its target, which they believed to be Camp David, and that gives us reason to believe that perhaps Mark was able to help save the lives of people on the ground,” Hoglan, a United Airlines flight attendant, told NBC’s “Today” show.
A senior U.S. intelligence official told MSNBC.com that mobile phone communications from Flight 93 suggest that three passengers overpowered the hijackers but were unable to maintain control of the plane.
Friends of Mark Bingham, a former Division 1 rugby player who also played in San Francisco’s gay rugby and basketball leagues, believe he may have been one of the three passengers who confronted the hijackers, but they acknowledge they may never be able to prove it.
Lloyd Kinoshita, who played pick-up basketball games with Bingham, said, “I have no doubt that if there was an opportunity to save lives that Mark would have initiated action. He was a competitor and leader, but even more so, he was a caring individual.”
On the flight, Bingham was seated in the first-class cabin. Gay.com/PlanetOut.com Network has not yet confirmed that Burnett, 38, the former chief operating officer for Thoratec Corp., was also in first class.
Friends said Bingham was a large, athletic man who was once gored in the leg while running with the bulls in Pamplona, Spain. He was the type of person, they said, who wouldn’t be afraid to take on the hijackers.
“Today, in the face of this great tragedy, I am taking a small amount of comfort in the growing body of evidence indicating that Mark was a hero,” said Bryce Eberhart, a PlanetOut Partners employee who played rugby with Bingham.

8

Resign yourself to the fact that you’re going to get hurt. Every MA black belt I’ve spoken to has rated his or her chances of escaping from an unarmed knife attack without serious injuries as about even at best. The odds for the rest of us are even worse. Also realise that these aren’t lethal wepaons, so unless you get an artery cut you’ll be in fairly good shape.

Since these are short bladed weapons they can’t be effectively used for stabbing, they have to slash. Wrap something around your forearm like a coat, parry with that arm and if you’re any good you may get off lightly. Ideally you’d get a magazine and tie it round your arm with whatever is to hand (the earphone cables should work), that will stop almost any possible damage from a boxcutter.

Get a weapon. Bottles, glasses, pens, rolled up magazines, a heavy weight tied to a length of cord (again the earphone cables), keys, ground up peanuts and biscuits. All good. Since you’ll be chosing the time and place you shouldn’t need to go in empty handed.

Get in close fast so that the weapon advantage is minimised. Slashing weapons have a particular disadvanatge in close (That doesn’t mean they can’t still kill you.). Throw something as your first move. Spirits or ground up salted peanuts in the eyes would be favourite. Take out the weapon arm first. Stabbing to the side of bicep or underside of wrist with a pen or broken glass is pretty much garaunteed to make a knife grip release. If you can’t do that go for the soft spots: eyes, throat, groin. Don’t waste time attacking the knees unless no other option is available. It’s a plane and your attacker doesn’t need to be very mobile.

[sub]Disclaimer: all advice is very style and practitioner specific. YMMV. This poster takes no responsibility for the almost certain serious injury likely to result if anyone is reckless enough to try this in real life.

9

You could always pull up the seat bottom and use it as a shield. It should come right out since it’s supposed to be able to be used as a flotation device. It would give you some protection. But most importantly I would think is to have other passengers assist. You should be able to simply overwhelm them.

10

I was thinking the seat thing myself. I think the big thing would be that your example would inspire others. to help. There should be a fire extinguisher somewhere on the plane perhaps you could use that.

11

One thing to keep in mind in this particular situation is that the passengers probably had no idea that the hijackers were on a suicide mission, at least at the beginning of the ordeal. Assuming that the pilot was already dead or injured and unable to take over flying duties, the passengers best chance at that point may have been to figure that the hijackers were capable of landing the plane and were trying to set up a hostage situation, which would hopefully end up with the hostage takers either dead or taken into custody.(As a thread from last week asked, has a hijacking ever been successful? the general concensus being very rarely.) Unless one of the other passengers were capable of flying the plane, the ones who presumably took out the hijackers (in the case of the LA bound plane) must have known that their actions even if successful, would result in the ultimate crash of the plane.

12

The main question has already been answered several ways (dogpile, take the hit, use a seat cushion). I’ll answer this question by saying that your chances of getting a leatherman onto a plane any time in the near future are pretty near zero.

13

Speaking as one trained (somewhat) in a style that specializes in knife-fighting, I would have to say that an attempt to disarm is a bad approach for anyone not specially trained in it. You should try to kill him instead–knives are complicated to take away from someone, you will probably get hurt, and even if it works you’re left with an unarmed but unhurt (and really pissed) opponent.

Overall, Gaspode’s advice is pretty good. Your best weapon may be those headphone cords–you can make a pretty good garotte with them, and if you get a good grip, the hijacker shouldn’t be able to yell for help. If you’ve got a blunt weapon, stike for the knuckles/back of the hand; that tends to make the hand spring open. Protect areas where major arteries are particularly vulnerable (inside forearm and around your throat are common targets. Try to take cuts on the backs of your arms if you can. Having a knife yourself is largely irrelevant–a knife is not a very good weapon for fighting against another knife, although if you’re trained/experienced you can do it. Your chances may be better if you start off unarmed.

Oh, yeah–and assume that you will be cut, possibly fatally. Even if you are, most knife wounds take a while to incapacitate you, and they don’t start to really hurt immediately. You still have time to take him out, and no reason not to do so.

14

If your opponent is untrained and makes the mistake of holding the knife in a steady position within your reach you can attempt the following:

Using the cross-opposing arm (He has knife in left, you use left hand, he has knife in right, you use your right)grab his wrist with the palm side of your hand facing up so that your elbow is facing up. Twist your hand so that your elbow is facing down while stepping back with that side leg (If using your right hand, step back with right leg, etc) dragging your opponent forward. Take your free hand and apply pressure to his elbow, thus straightening out his arm and possibly breaking it.

This is a move that needs to be practiced and is best left to trained martial artists.

If your opponent knows what he is doing, he will keep the knife out of your reach and make quick slashing or thrusting attacks. Use quick kick attacks to keep yourself out of range and try to draw him down the aisle so that other passengers will have the opportunity to deal with him from behind.

15

Knives are lethal weapons, remarkably so…Police are taught to respond to knife threats with two things, guns and distance…Within 7 yards I think it is, knives are considered to have an advantage over guns…A bullet has a very narrow but deep path, but a blade slash, while shallow, can be very wide…

However, knife wounds kill by blood loss…This means that it often takes a while for even a fatal wound to take effect, and it means that if blood loss can be kept under control (a pretty big if), then the wound is usually survivable…

But, if the plane were taken back, and assuming the cockpit crew was dead, what would you do now? I wouldn’t even know how to operate the radio to ask someone what to do…heh, I’d probably call my Brother-in-law, who is a United pilot (flies the route Flight 11 was on, too)…

“Um, hey Mark? Ya know the 767 I was flying home on? Er, how do you land it?”

16

Funny. I was thinking about this very subject. The best I came up with is to use hot water/coffee and splash it in the terrorist’s face. Barrelling down the aisle with a cart would be effective as well. As a last resort you could try and convince them to eat the in-flight meal.

17

I’m also a blackbelt and my style (American Freestyle) puts a lot of focus on unarmed vs. edged weapons, since it’s a pretty common real world encounter.

Mindset is everything. If you decide to take action, you have to face it with a kill or be killed attitude, and accept that the odds for an untrained person are about 50-50 at best.

That being said, there are a lot of techniques that can be used to disarm someone with a knife. The bad thing is, like every technique, they all require a fair amount of practice to pull off quickly and accurately.

Soviet special forces used to have a pretty effective hand-to-hand fighting technique. The general gist of the style was to attempt to land 200 punches and/or kicks per minute. That’s not a typo. While not particularly graceful or elegant, it is majorly difficult to defend against.

Luckily, there is an untrained equivilent to this: Psychotic flailing. Close your fists, don’t think about blocking and try to hit the SOB as many times and as hard as you can. You will almost certainly get hurt, but probably not as bad as if you’d West Side Story danced with the bad guy and no worse than if you’d done nothing (in the WTC hijacker scenario).

Almost no one expects to be attacked like this, and it may give you that second and a half you need to stun him/get help from other passengers, etc. If you hit hard enough, fast enough, enough times, you might up your chances to 60-40.

I’ve shown this technique in some of the rape prevention classes I used to teach. I had to have an assistant handy to pull the girl I’d pick out of the audiece away from me once she got going.

As always, this is thrown out for general info, and I assume no liability for any injuries someone trying this may receive.

18

As an unarmed and out-of-shape kinda guy, I’d use one of those metal trays the stewardesses serve meals with as a shield and a bludgeon.

And a knee to the groin always helps. :wink:

19

All pretty well covered, I think. Get in close, accept that you’re going to get hurt, possibly very badly and quite possibly killed, and do not fight to disarm or restrain. Fight to kill him. Makeshift weapons are well covered, but one thing I haven’t seen is: teeth. The jaw is pretty powerful and can do a good bit of damage. Mister Psychotic Terrorist isn’t going to be terribly effective with a blade if someone’s teeth are grinding into his arm as several other passengers pummel the life out of him.

The fabric of hijacking events has definitely changed forever.

20

the element of surprise and the safety of numbers.

If I were still in my seat, as soon as the bastards attention was focused on something else or had his back to me, I’d take my own seat cushion and throw it at them and pray that others would follow my example and start bombarding them with anything at hand until myself or someone else could take them down.