I know RAM, CPU speed, CPU FSB speed & video card are all important. Having broadband helps too. Is there anything else that matters much in online gaming.
How important is CPU speed? I have played CS and TF on an 800Mhz and 1.2Ghz processor and I don’t see a difference, so I don’t see why i’d need a 3Ghz CPU. How important is FSB speed? Would an Athlon with a 333Mhz FSB be much/alot worse than a P4 with an 800Mhz FSB?
at the end of it all is the video card the most important factor in online gaming or can weakness in any of these 5 things (i’m sure there are more than 5) create a bottleneck that ruins the benefits of the other aspects of your computer.
Generally, the video card is the most important part of online gaming, though a slower CPU or RAM could bottleneck it. The next most important thing is having enough RAM to avoid hitting the swap file; for example, say you only have 256 MB of RAM, and the game uses 300 to play. You hit the swap, and things slow massively. If you upgrade to 512 MB, then you would get much better performance. But in this case, going to a full gig of RAM wouldn’t help much. CPU speed in the next in line, but still important.
Counterstrike & Team Fortess are both pretty old games; I remember playing them on my old 300 mhz K6 fairly well. With even an old graphics card, both a 1.2 ghz & a 800 mhz machine could easily play those games at the frame cap with no problem - IIRC, the frame cap is set to 72 fps in those games at default.
With newer games, there is a definate improvement with a faster CPU. I recently (just yesterday) upgraded from a AthlonXP 2000+ to an Athlon 64 2800+ and the improvements in gaming were quite noticable. Doom 3 & Counterstrike: Source both gained about 20 fps on average, and are now much smoother overall, with no really low fps dips. For newer games, a 3ghz CPU (or 1.8ghz AMD processor ) is quite nice to have. Here is a chart of Doom 3 performance, that shows how important a good CPU is.
How much the speed of the FSB matters depends on the processor architecture. The Pentium 4 design is quite dependant on on the FSB, it doesn’t matter quite so much for AthlonXPs, and of course, the Athlon 64s don’t really have a FSB, due to their integrated memory controller.
Overall, when building a game machine, for the best deal for your money, you want to balance the performance of each of the componets, so that you don’t have any one part really bottlenecking you. If you have any more specific questions, go ahead and ask.
Wow, timing is everything in life. I just logged on to START a thread like this, but here it is…
I want a new computer, and it needs to run the new Half Life 2 in a truly kick-ass manner. And I do a lot of flight simulation, which I’d like to run smoothly too.
So far, the best my research has turned up is this company. I’m leaning toward the Athlon 3400 equivalent processor, 1 gig of RAM, and one of the better ATI video cards. Hoping to spend around 2k.
Questions
I don’t do much online gaming. I’m more of a single-player guy. Am I getting more than I need?
If I just buy the box, is there any reason it won’t be able to utilize my current monitor, keyboard, speakers, and mouse? (Current machine is a Dell)
Educate me about Athlon processors. I see they’re generally preferred for gaming, but why? And what are the major differences between the various Athlons?
Any other info would be appreciated too. Thanks for the thread Wesley!
That place you linked too seems quite pricey. May I suggest [http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv](Monarch Computer) instead, if you don’t feel comfortable building your own. A machine configured simularlly to the the $2000 machine you linked too will run for $1550 or so at Monarch. If you need any help configuring a machine there, just ask.
Currently an Athlon 64 3400 & 1 GB of RAM would be a pretty good choice, but today on the high end ATI and Nvidia are pretty close to dead equal. Right now, in the $250-$300 range, the Geforce 6800 is the best; in the $350-$400 range, the Radeon x800 Pro & 6800GT are benching pretty close to equal.
Between a 6800 GT or a x800 Pro, I would go Nvidia, but mainly because of the better Linux drivers. Go with the cheaper deal you find here, but stay away from anything made by Powercolor.
There are quite a few (mostly) single player games that require lots of hardware. Doom 3, Far Cry, Half Life 2 is coming up and so on. Though really, you could put together a good system for a $1000 or so.
While Dell sometimes ignores standards, in the case of monitors, mice, and keyboards they play nicely. Those parts will work just as well as they do now.
Athlon processors are generally preferred for gaming because they generally provide much more performance for you dollar. For example, in those Doom 3 benchmarks I linked to, the Athlon 64 2800+ (normally $140-$150ish) outperformed every Intel Processor, except the 3.4ghz, Pentium 4, which sells for for roughly twice as much, and the Extreme Editions, which are in $800 or more range. Athlon 64s are simply the best gaming proccessors available.
Right now, there are 3 types of Athlons available. The first are the AthlonXPs, which are older chips that are being phased out. They are 32 bit only chips. They are rated with a number scheme, because AMD chips outperform Pentium 4s at the same clockspeed. Generally, with the AthlonXPs, the number scheme matches up nicely with Pentium 4s at the low end (i.e., an AthlonXP 2000+, running at 1.67ghz, is faster than a 2ghz Pentium 4 most of the time) but it doesn’t work as well at the high end - the 2.2ghz AthlonXP 3200 really only matches up to a 3ghz P4, if that.
Then there are two types of Athlon 64s - socket 754, and socket 939. The main difference is that socket 939 supports dual channel memory, though this doesn’t really give much of a speed boost. The PR numbers for the Athlon 64s hold up quite well when compared to Pentium 4s - the Athlon 64s being faster in gaming, P4s taking the 3d rendering & media encoding. Athlon 64s also support 64 bit extensions, which means that with a 64 bit OS, you can use much more than the 2gb of RAM most 32bit processors can access. Also, things like media encoding get a huge boost here two - some people report 40% speed gains for this when running 64 bit version of Linux, or the Windows XP 64 bit beta.
Right now, I would go with a socket 754 system (actually, I just did) but if you wanted to wait a month or two, Socket 939 systems with PCI-Express support will be available. PCI-Express is a new bus system that replaces the old PCI & AGP buses.
Right now, PCI-E video cards don’t really offer any speed improvements, but PCI-E is much more forward looking - each little 1x slot has 250megabits of bandwidth, compared to the shared 133megabits every PCI device has to share. And the 16x slots for video cards has more than twice the bandwidth than 8x AGP, though right now no games need even 4x AGP bandwidth. I already had a pretty good AGP video card, which is why I didn’t wait for PCI-E.
Why don’t you just buy the parts on pricewatch and get a computer store to build your system? You probably only need a CPU, motherboard, RAM and Video card. The RAM may cost $150 for 1.5Ghz, $250 for an Athlon64 3400 with a motherboard and $400 for a Geforce6800 or RadeonX800. Plus maybe $200 in labor to build it.
I would highly recommend buying the pieces and building your own. I was just in the market for a new PC (see this thread ) and RandomLetters was one of the posters who ended up convincing me to build my own.
And I am inept when it comes to using my hands to build things.
I spent $2,500 to build a super-fast system, but this included a 19" flat-panel monitor, Windows XP, MS Office Small Business, speakers, etc. In other words, about $900 worth of stuff you don’t seem to need - I had to buy everything, since my previous computer was a laptop.
And I got an Athlon 64 3500+, 1 Gig of RAM, and a 256MB GeForce Ultra.
All you really need is the patience to build it - took me about 8 hours all told, including running to various stores to pick up shit I didn’t know I needed (don’t even ask about Windows XP and SATA hard drives).
In other words, I am a total convert to building your own - and less than two weeks ago, I was a “I only want to buy something already built for me” type.
Oh, and I got everything from newegg. Can’t recommend enough. I got the regular FedEx shipping (which was heavily discounted due to amount I purchased) and the stuff came in four boxes from two warehouses, one in LA, the other in Memphis. The main components didn’t get out in the same shipment, so newegg shipped that box overnight AND refunded me the shipping cost for that box. I got everything on the exact same day.
Rexnervous, I’m about halfway convinced to build a box. Especially since you came to that decision from a point of little experience, which is where I am too.
Can you describe some of the process of actually building it when the components arrived? What were some of the sticking points? What would you tell somone like me to watch out for?
Also, please send me an email if you wouldn’t mind fielding a few more of my questions.
Mach Tuck, when I look back on it the hardest part was the research:
[ul]
[li]how to build your own computer (when you say I had little experience, the truth is I had zero experience)[/li][li]what components did I want/need, checking out prices and incompatibilities, etc. In fact, one of the most difficult decisions was the type of case (I ended up with an Aspire X-Navigator with built-in 500 watt power supply)[/li][/ul]
Building it was pretty straightforward, though slow-going. I think you’ll find most people build it the same way, and the experts here and elsewhere are better situated to tell you the best way, but here’s what I did (more or less):
[ol]
[li]Attach processor to motherboard[/li][li]Heatsink/fan to motherboard[/li][li]motherboard into case[/li][li]turn computer on, make sure CPU fan is working[/li][li]removable storage drive(s) into case[/li][li]hook up power and data cables so far[/li][li]hard drive into case (cables too)[/li][li]video card into case (cables too)[/li][li]wireless card into case[/li][li]hook up all fans[/li][li]load Operating System[/li][li]load all hardware drivers from provided software[/li][li]go to all hardware component manufacturer websites, download updated drivers if necessary[/li][/ol]
Sticking points/what to watch out for (again from memory)
[ul]
[li]Read up ahead of time on how to build a computer, just so you understand the basic layout of things.[/li][li]Do buy a floppy drive. I decided to skip this, thinking they were too outdated, but ended up needing one (see next point). I mean, they’re like $15, and you can remove later if you want. [/li][li]If you buy a SATA drive and install Windows XP, you will need a floppy disk with the SATA drivers on it. Prepare for that ahead of time if possible.[/li][li]Don’t build on a carpet. I built in middle of my kitchen.[/li][li]Get an anti-static bracelet and always use it. Made me feel safer. Last thing you want is to fry one of your new toys.[/li][li]Get a $15 set of basic PC tools[/li][li]Get a small flashlight or clip-on LED light.[/li][li]If possible, have a second computer w/ Internet access there to look things up as you go. Immensely helpful.[/li][li]Read the installation manuals. [/li][li]Some things won’t work right away. Make sure you’ve read the manuals and followed all instructions (I had one nagging issue, solely because I had forgotten to install one piece of software)[/li][li]Have patience. And be prepared for little frustrations. And be prepared to have to learn things.[/li][li]The CD/DVD player I purchased did NOT come with the cable necessary to attach to sound card/motherboard for correct sound output. You won’t find this easily. Find out if you need it ahead of time.[/li][li]Test out your machine entirely in the place you build it, not where you’re going to set it up eventually. [/li][/ul]
I think that’s it for now. If you have more questions, feel free to email me at williams dot chris @ gmail dot com
1.)Internet connection- For a lot of online games, the internet connection is actually far more important than anything else. Particularly if your machine is shuttling a lot of data back and forth. Some games have netcode developed to allow slower players an equal chance. However, in games where a lot of players are all in a given area, the people with faster internet connections will suffer less through lag. Lag can be devastating in online games- it can cause all sorts of misery if your character gets ‘lagged out’ at a bad moment. The biggest gripe I had with online games like Planetside and Ragnarok online was not my crappy graphics, but the lag I had to deal with constantly.
2.) I think when it comes to the Processor, Ram, and video card, a lot depends on what game you are playing. Some games suck up ram like there’s no tomorrow, so having more ram would be good in that situation. Others may be picky about what video card you have, and others might need better processors. Sometimes you wind up with ‘bottlenecks’, like having a fast processor but a low-end video card, causing the game to run slow even though it should be running at a decent FPS. If anything, put a lot of research into Video cards to make sure you get the best bang for your buck, because newer does not always mean better.
3.) The rest is just for general personal comfort, but it should get mention. Some games are much easier to play wtih a joystick. Years ago I played a Mechwarrior Demo called Battletech 3025. (game never made release, unfortunately). It was an online mech simulator game, wtih 4 mechs vs 4 mechs. The controls were rather complex, as there were lots of weapon toggles and a myriad of functions. Using a force-feedback joystick was perfect for this game, because all the important functions could be bound to easily reachable buttons. This allowed you to spend less time searching for a key/accidentally pushing the wrong button, and more time blowing up your opponent to kingdom come
) is quite nice to have. 