This is basically a discussion about the Anthropic Principle.
We are self-aware, sentient beings because we live in a universe where the fine constants are what they are. Galaxies were able to form, stars were able to undergo fusion, planets accreted, evolution took place, etc. Basically all these steps were possible because the conditions of our universe (as well as its size) ultimately allowed for life to form.
My question to you all: Let’s assume the multiverse exists. What do you think the minimum requirements are for a universe to spontaneously create self-aware life? What are some common traits you think are necessary in most valid solutions?
“Self-awareness is the capacity for introspection and the ability to reconcile oneself as an individual separate from the environment and other individuals.” - Wikipedia, baby!
If we count simulations, I think you could create a fairly small universe that was self aware and composed purely of information and some form of processing.
You’re rather obsessed with simulations, jackdavinci. Why is that? I’ve seen multiple posts by you referring to simulations, and it hardly is relevant it seems.
Capable of wondering why the world is the way that it is.
That’s not exactly a literal definition of self-awareness, but it seems the most relevant definition when it comes to the Anthropic Principle. Invoking the Anthropic Principle is, roughly, answering a question “Why does the universe have property X?” with “Because a universe that didn’t have property X would contain no one capable of wondering why not”.
Quite apart from any difficulties there may be in defining or measuring self awareness (frankly, fussing over the definition, in this context, is a bit pedantic), we have no idea of how the self awareness that we human human beings have comes about, and thus no idea what the necessary conditions for it might be. The OP’s question is unanswerable.
I don’t think that matters in this scenario; the OP isn’t asking how we could tell it was self aware. We wouldn’t have access to such a different universe even if it existed after all.
Not specifically, but if we consider a hypothetical universe which generates (possibly) self-aware entities, then don’t we need some kind of test to determine whether these hypothetical entities really are self-aware?
Scientists like simulations, and this is a science question. Thanks for noticing though
Others pointed out that “self aware” needs to be defined and likewise I think “universe” needs to be defined.
If we are talking strictly about the types of universes that rely on the foundational constants, then I don’t think it makes sense to talk about the presence of self awareness - merely accounting for the possibility of life is sufficient.
I read an interesting paper which examined the common notion that changing any of the constants outside of a small range would make it difficult for things to exist in anything close to resembling the sort of arrangement we have now.
They determined that while that did seem to be true, changing more than one constant opened up a whole slew of potentially life supporting scenarios.
I agree that self-awareness is probably a pretty vague term and is arguably hard to define. I was about to call it “intelligent self-awareness” because bacteria isn’t intelligent/self-aware and yet it’s life just the same. Then it makes me wonder how you even define “life,” because we can always tank it back to some simpler predecessor if life is only possible with natural selection. There are plenty of complex processes that aren’t “life,” either.
So perhaps this is all just a flaw in the question. I guess I’d try to define the self-awareness via an entity capable of making decisions based on inputs from the environment (even if those decisions are just “thoughts”).
More specifically, from what I have read on self awareness, it basically requires 1) some form of information processing (not too hard - animals have this, and even wires, crystals, and Legos can achieve this)
2) some form of feedback loop
3) (maybe) internal symbolic representation
I don’t think it needs much more than this, if anything. My computer is aware of things, it’s power consumption, temperature, connectivity, and it makes changes based on those things.
I’m not a big fan of the Anthropic Principle. Seems to be very self serving.
All you need is chemistry which allows for imperfectly self-replicating molecules, and conditions which impose a loose upper limit on the complexity of systems that evolve from them. The random walk through the increasing complexity of such systems might eventually lead you to self-awareness, though of course by no means guarantees it.
Assuming the self-awareness will be arrived at via evolution, I think the environment needs to not be random, otherwise there would be no gain to modeling and predicting.
