I live in the South, and most people around my workplace are ostentatiously Christian. There is one other atheist I know of (a real cranky old bat, too). She used to sit next to me and we’d have some great conversations, but since she’s moved to a different office, there’s been a more or less constant hen party around here, with everyone talking about what they did at church the other day. I say nothing, but I’ll be honest if asked, and I did have to (politely) draw the line with this one lady who sent glurgey e-mails.
It’s harder with the family, especially Grandma. I have decided not to argue with her any more, but it’s difficult because the woman is absolutely spoiling for a fight. I’ve also decided that if she tries to wring any promises out of me on her deathbed, I’ll tell her whatever she wants to hear.
I can’t tell about my eleven year old, but my sixteen year old claims to believe. However, she hates going to church. I think she’ll come around one day. I try not to debate with the children either, but they know how I feel.
I’m a fairly recent atheist, though I’ve been agnostic a long time, and sometimes I do get very annoyed with Christians. I hope this intolerance will pass.
No, that is what he said. Please read Post#3 again:
Not a word about politics, just an assertion that the U.S. is “amost as fundamentally fucked as most of the Muslim world”–a gratuitous, anti-American cheap shot inserted into a non-political thread.
I’m not an atheist, but I’m not Christian, and I’ve never really noticed that. At my last job, I only knew when Easter was because we got Easter Monday off as a “Spring Holiday”.
I am quite openly non-Christian, but I don’t have problems with people at work trying to convert me. Scratch that- I have had coworkers try to convert me to their religion. But I work in IT, so that means they tried to convert me from emacs to vi, or from TC shell to Bash or Korn shell.
Talking with people who “know.” No, you believe, but you do not “know.”
And the various religions (Catholic, Mormons, orthodox Jews) who refuse to believe their religion discriminates against women. That really, really irks me. You can say you accept it, but don’t deny it.
Wife and I and 3 kids all atheist. I don’t have a problem with proselytizing - just say I’m not interested. Used to be troubled by the fact that so many folk were able to go on and on about their irrational beliefs, as tho such beliefs made them a better person. Or just assume that everyone shares their irrational beliefs. But if I happened to mention my “beliefs”, I would be considered a worse person for it. But now I accept it as given, and simply turn a deaf ear to such witnessing, and don’t share my philosophy unless specifically asked.
My kids have commented about disliking a similar thing at school. Basically feeling like outsiders and disliking how often so many kids bring their religion into discussions. Not every christian does. But unless you reject such beliefs, you may not realize how frequently folks interject them into everyday situations.
One benefit to attending a UU church is most people are too ignorant to know that it does not require belief in a supernatural. They are reassured to know that you go to a church. I even had one good-natured idiot respond “Oh well, what is important is that we all believe in the same god.” And I saw no need to educate her to the contrary.
Plus, I think my kids received a better education on christianity (and other world religions) from a UU church than many practitioners of those religions receive.
It’s no secret that sometimes things are said that deviate from the OP. It happens in most threads here. And besides, Leaffan made the bold point below…
Which sounds like an open invitation for you to open a pit thread if you so desired.
Have you ever actually been to the USA? I live in Texas & have no problems with my atheism/agnosticism. We do occasionally have religious discussions in my very diverse workplace–I remember a Shia & a Sunni Muslim explaining some of their differences. (But it didn’t end in a fight.) Any attempt to evangelize at work would be snuffed out after a complaint to HR.
I’m glad to take the same religious holidays that everyone else gets. (Company rules are pretty liberal for those with alternate holidays.) And religious paraphernalia don’t upset me. I collect Mexican folk art–often with a Catholic twist. My favorite Old Timey/Bluegrass artists include sacred songs in their repertoire. And I love my favorite recording of The Messiah.
For someone so “advanced”–you’re spouting some ignorant opinions.
I often think that my friends are atheist right along with me, but when I think about it, most of them are either nominally or intensely Christian, or somewhere in between. I’m OK with them, they’re OK with me.
In the office, there is one JW. She never talks about it. We all just know that she only shows up to the office parties that have no meaning attached to them. I always like it better when she shows up. She’s pretty cool.
In the past many years, I’ve been proseletized to only once, and that was just a couple of weeks ago. The guy never asked me what my beliefs were, he only expressed his own. He did so with friendly enthusiasm, and I found it to be fun and interesting. And I loved the music he was playing. (It was the Q’ran, sung instead of spoken.)
I don’t live in Texas or Alabama or Bakersfield, I live in Boston. Tolerance is more or less expected here, despite the fact that Catholicism is the dominant belief.
Easter is kind of no big deal to me. It never has been, even though I grew up in a somewhat Christian household. Christmas is a very big deal to me. I totally buy into the traditions and practices, which to me have very little to do with Jesus.
I haven’t had too many problems, but I have had some people give me shit about being an athiest. I generally try to keep it to myself, but when I do have to say that I’m an athiest, the most common response is confused silence. It’s a general ‘Oh, youre one of them’ kind of reactions.
My brother joined a Christian church when he moved with his family, and became very religious overnight. He spent a lot of time calling me and telling me all about how I was going to hell, his way was better, etc etc. Nothing I said mattered. His beliefs were ironclad fact and nothing could convince him otherwise. He’s toned it down a bit, but he still tries. He’ll jump on any little thing I say or any event that gives him an opening. It’s annoying to deal with.
One of my coworkers at my last contract, a devout Muslim, found out that I was an atheist, and he didn’t believe me. He told me to my face that I had to be lying, that everyone believed. He wouldn’t leave it alone after that. Kept bringing stuff up, sending me emails and links to stuff about Islam. He was pretty much the same way. He would try to point out something in the Koran, like how it was known that all iron came from the sky, as if it was a fact that confirmed the Koran was divine. And I would argue against it, like pointing out all the iron mines, and how the core of the planet was iron, and when he had run out of counter arguments, usually very quickly, he would just tell me that I could believe what I wanted to believe. He honestly expected eveything he said to convert me.
I’ve had other encounters, but the bad ones stand out. Some old lady screeching at me that I was going to hell for worshipping Satan. A Bible thumping (literally) preacher demanding I kneel before him and beg forgiveness. A guy I gamed with telling me to my face that I was a nice guy but he was sorry that I was going to burn for eternity. Thing is, I can’t think of any good encounters. The best I can hope for is neutral, when I meet someone who doesn’t care.
Hey, I live and work in Houston, and my workplace is owned and overwhelmingly staffed by conservative Christians. Those of them who know me know that I’m an atheist, and they are, without exception, very respectful of me. We’re comfortable enough together that this morning, I brought in the Chick tracts I found under my windshield (my car was at the airport all weekend), and we all had a good laugh about it.
The biggest challenge for me is raising and teaching my kids. Their mom is a devout Mormon, and it’s becoming challenging to teach them to be ethical, moral people without undermining their mom.
In Minnesota it hasn’t really caused me any problems. It’s not something that ever comes up at work. I’ve done some volunteer work for Church-based charities where people had group prayers, but I just quietly stayed out of the prayer groups and no one ever said a word to me about it. On the occasions that evangelical co-workers have found out about my lack of belief (usually because they asked), they don’t seem offended or angry so much as excited by the challenge.
In the South, it was different. It was better not to mention it. When I told people in Louisiana I was an atheist, they’d look at me like I had two heads or accuse me of being a Satanist (some of them don’t have too good a grasp of what an atheist is). Hell, even being a liberal Christian can be controversial down there.
The only time I think I really got discriminated against was when I went through basic training. We had manatory prayers every night and anyone who didn’t want to go to chapel on sundays had to work cleaning the barracks. My C.C. openly called us “heathens.” That was more than 20 years ago, though. A lot has probably changed since then (when I went through, you could smoke in the barracks. That’s how long ago itwas).
vi is Og’s Own Editor. emacs is a seductive pablum to bring you to the evil of bloated, menu-driven applications. Just sayin’. I never got into the whole shell war debate, though; the beauty of Unix is that you can have multiple shells and switch to one or another (or run one from another) at will. Can’t we all just get along?
As for prosletyzing fundies and others who can’t let go the fact that one need not believe in invisibile, tempestuous, tantrum-throwing gods who have the manners of a spoilt child, I just refuse to engage them anymore, except for the light banter about the multitude of violent and mysogenic stories in the OT, especially Genesis, Exodus, and Levidicus, with a coworker whose faith seems to stem largely from his wife’s insistance. All True Bible Stories For Children has provided fodder for more than one entertaining afternoon when I need a portion of my attention distracted away from model meshing.
I can’t say that I care much about other people’s beliefs except when they start sending me glurgageous e-mails or knocking up my door at 0800. I’m occasionally inclined to do what this fellow did when that happens. I’d keep a dog, but that’s a lot of work just to scare away the White Shirts.
As for public witnessing, that’s just about as weird as the screaming psychotic maniac on the corner, and makes about as much sense as the Time Cube:Seek Wisdom of Cubic Life
Intelligence - or you die evil.
96 = 4 simultaneous 24 hour Days within
only 1 rotation of 4 quadrant Earth. 2 of
Earth quadrants are plus and 2 are minus -
existing only as opposites with zero value -
cancelling to ONEness nothing as Entity.
96 = new clock update face of 4/4 minute
segments, in 4-16 minute quarter hours in
24-64 minute hour Earth rotation. There
should be 4 different 24 hour clocks with
3 stubs on each hour hand, each stub will
represent the beginning and ending of its
own separate corner 24 hour day rotation,
6 hours apart from the day behind and 6
hours behind the 24 hour Day ahead.
96 = circumference measure change -
displacing 3-5minute segmented 15 minute
degrees with 4-4 minute 16 minute degree
per 64 degree hour Day quarters equalling
96-64 minute hours within 4 simultaneous
days in 1 rotation of Earth - 384 degrees.
96 = near outer limit cycle for human life.
96 = perfect mathematic antipodal opposite.
Evil God Believers refuse to
acknowledge 4 corner Days
rotating simultaneously around 4 quadrant created Earth -
in only 1 rotation, voiding the
Oneism Evil 1 Day 1 God.
You worship Satanic impostor guised by educators as 1 god.
No 1 God equals 4 - 24 hour
Days Rotating Simultaneously
within 1- 24 hour Rotation of
4 quadrant created Earth.
Ignoring 4 Corner Earth Days
will Destroy Evil Humanity.
I am organizing Children to
join “Cubic Army of 4 Days”
to convert Evil 1 Day Adults
to 4 Day mentality existence,
to serve perpetual humanity.
Actually, the Time Cube makes more sense than most religious babble. At least he doesn’t have any talking, burning bushes or flying saucer angels, and he doesn’t seem to be smiting anyone for mocking his baldness.
And then you go on to explain a whole bunch of problems. But just the ones that stand out. You only mentioned a few, but they completely outnumber all of the problems I’ve encountered in my entire life.
You don’t mention your location. I’d bet that that has a huge influence on how this plays out. I think that if I moved to northern Florida (as my parents are constantly trying to get me to do), then I’d have significant conflicts.
Or maybe not. I think I give off a vibe of “don’t even try” to a lot of proseletizers. That’s a significant change from my youth, when I was approached by every Bible studier, Krishna, Scientologist, and Mormon that passed by.
I never bring up religion/lack thereof in my daily life. It just isn’t what interests me. I have had one encounter at work where a client brought it up. A man and woman were bringing their dog in for fairly serious surgery. While doing their paperwork, they mentioned that they wanted to speak to the doctor before leaving.
So, they were put into an exam room and I came in. They told me that, prior to surgery, they thought we could join hands and pray for Jesus’ help in getting the dog through surgery. I was pissed, and probably could have handled things better. I told them that I could not believe they would assume that I shared their beliefs, and that, indeed, I did not. Further, I made it clear that IMHO I was the only one who would be working on the animal, and Jesus or anyone else was not welcome in my OR. I suggested they find a veterinarian who would be comfortable with their POV and asked that they leave.
That seems quite an extreme reaction. Could you not have said you didn’t want to participate, but that they could do what [the fuck] they like. (But then not say the [the fuck] part.)
Now this is an interesting religious discussion. vi? Bah! All I heard in Cambridge about you CalTech people was true.
Back to the OP, I just remembered one time I almost got into trouble. I was taking my daughter and her friend trick or treating, when her friend expressed concern about the devil. I blurted out that she didn’t have to worry, since the devil didn’t exist - then remembered that her mother was pretty religious. Then she asked “but God exists, right?” and I gave a non-answer. So much for atheists proseletyzing.
It sounds like you already know this, but I think that response was a little OTT. Politely declining to pray with them was all that was really necessary. By throwing them out, you reinforced any negative views of atheists they may have had and gave them a “persecution” story to tell. Maybe they were more pushy or arrogant than what you have described, though. How did they react to you?
I’ve also decided that if she tries to wring any promises out of me on her deathbed, I’ll tell her whatever she wants to hear.