What are your main beefs w/ Atheism?

Great Debates
1

Atheism or anti-christianity, that is. This is, of course, a response to the “main beefs w/ Christianity” thread.

My main beef is a lack of understanding of where we christians are coming from. They assign us beliefs that we don’t have. Let an atheist talk long enough, and eventually you become a Phelps member in his eyes.

Specificially:

A) “Christians hate gays”, when the vast majority just teaches that marriage is necessary for sex and gays can’t be married since they can’t have kids. Atheists have turned “Don’t have gay sex” into “Don’t be gay” and it’s not true.

B) They rant and rave about how Catholocism bans birth-control methods while saying things like “disease and pregnancy are so rampant!” Like part A, we don’t just want you to not use birth control. We want you to get MARRIED and not use it. At least Catholics, anyhow…

C) The idea that I can’t have beliefs w/o accepting every other religion’s beliefs too. How do I know I should convert you? Because my religion says so. What about their faith that says the same thing, you ask? Simple: They’re wrong and I’m right. Why is that such a hard concept to understand?

D) Statements like:

that Beaucarnea says. Who’s ever heard of such people? Mirrors? Really? What, there’s no still lakes where these people are from?

E) The claim that it’s a big organization to get money. Riiight. 'cause, you know, priests are so rich and everything. I’ve never seen a priest driving a 'vette.

F) Not so much the drive to teach our kids immorality in our schools, but that they want me to pay for it. “Go get your own school if you want to teach religion!”? We’ve done that already. Now please stop taking my taxes to pay for your school.

G) The incessant attack on the Bible. Claims of “It’s been translated so many times!” and such. Yes, it HAS been translated millions of times…INDEPENDENTLY!! You try getting thousands (millions?) of monks to mistranslate the same part of scripture in order to conspiratorily edit the text. Not easy.
I could go on and on with more examples of this sort of thing, but would rather hear what some of you might have to say on the issue. Thanks! :slight_smile:

2

Those aren’t beefs with atheism. They’re beefs with people who take issue with Christianity. Atheism is simply the belief that there is no God.

3

I’d like you also to prove that somehow those are the tenets of atheism.

I’m sure if you poll any two atheists on this board we’ll disagree radically on a good many issues. The *only *thing we are guaranteed to agree on is we are without god. And that is all that atheism means - without god.

4

I predict this will go swimmingly well.

5

As a lifelong and contented atheist, my main (in fact, my only) real beef with atheism is that I feel it provides insufficient spiritual scope for gratitude and veneration.

I’m deeply satisfied with materialist cosmology and rationalism as a way of looking at the universe. But sometimes you just wanna praise the…the…well, the something, y’know?

Still, this is a very minor shortcoming compared to what I’d have to put up with if I tried to acquiesce in theistic views that I don’t genuinely believe. So I’ll live with it.

6

Is this a real debate or just another bet with your buddies to see how long it takes before a particular response pops up?

7

I have to agree with Thudlow Boink here. What question are you really seeking the answer to? Do you want to know what my beefs with Atheism are, or what my beefs with people who slam Christianity are? They’re two very different questions, and you’re asking one but sounding like you meant to ask the other.

8

I don’t have any beefs with atheism. I have some beefs with the attitude of some atheists when it comes to discussions of religion.

9

Main beef, being an atheist after being raised moderately Christian, is that the hymns and carols aren’t quite as good.

10

My major beef with atheism is the limited selection of hymns.

11

Are you suggesting that atheism is specifically anti-Christian, or are you just conflating people who are atheists and people who are anti-Christian for the purposes of your rant?

Your complaint about generalizations made by atheists against Christians would have more weight if you did not couch it as a generalization against atheists.

Marriage is necessary for sex? What the hell have I been doing with my boyfriend, then? 'Cause it sure felt like sex.

Now, if your religion forbids you from marrying another man, by all means, do not marry another man. However, I do not share your religion. As such, I would appreciate it if you did not attempt to use secular law to enforce your religious beliefs on me.

Also, “It’s okay to be gay, just don’t have any gay sex,” is still a pretty hateful position. You’re asking a significant portion of the population to forgo one of the most basic human needs, and for no good rational reason. And pretty fucking shakey theological reasons, to boot.

The problem a lot of people have with the Catholic Church’s stance on birth control is that, quite simply, it doesn’t work. People are going to have pre-maritial sex, no matter what the Church says. Catholics will have pre-maritial sex, no matter what the Church says. There’s nothing wrong with the Church preaching that one should not have pre-maritial sex. No one has a problem with that. But when the Church actively moves to block access to birth control, what they’re doing is putting dogma ahead of human lives, which quite a few people (and not just atheists) find reprehensible.

The problem you’ve got here is that, “My religion is right,” is not a remotely convincing argument to anyone who is not already a part of your religion. The other guy who’s trying to convert me? He’s saying exactly the same thing. Why should I listen to you, and not to him?

There’s a difference between not being familiar with a mirror, and not being familiar with the concept of reflected light. Sure, someone from a very primitive culture will have seen their reflection in a pool of water. Being able to (seemingly) pick up that pool of water in your hand and carry it around with you, without it spilling all over the place, would be a pretty impressive feat to a person from such a culture.

That said, I’m pretty skeptical that any cultures exist today that would be that impressed by a mirror. But the general point being made stands.

The complaint here is not about individual avarice, but corporate avarice. The Catholic Church is a fantastically wealthy organization. It is not unreasonable for a person to look at the vast store of wealth held by the Vatican, and wonder what an ostensibly charitable organization is doing, hording all that wealth.

Start paying taxes on church property, and we can talk.

Who has ever claimed that the Bible has been translated “millions” of times? If you’re going to rebut these arguments, you should really make the effort to understand what the arguments actually are, first.

I think this part would be better served by waiting until this thread is inevitably moved to the Pit.

12

My only beef is with those who fail to distinguish between hard atheists (~BG) and soft atheists (B~G). Hard atheism is a belief system, as the symbology makes clear. A hard atheist BELIEVES that there is no God. That is a different assertion from the soft atheist who DOES NOT BELIEVE that there is a God.

13

You do know that atheism disagrees with all forms of theism, not just Christian, right ? For that matter, you could be of the “Christ was a wise man and great moral teacher, but a mortal” persuasion, and still be an atheist. Atheism is not more anti Christian than it is anti- any other theism.

That sounds like “We hate gays, but we don’t want to look like bigots, so let’s find a less honest way of saying gays are evil.” And it’s the Christians keeping gays from getting married, due to their bigotry. AND it’s a slam against childless couples.

As well, claiming that you need a major commitment just for sex is a great way of screwing up people’s lives, not to mention marriage; I can’t believe that a marriage that happens just because the couple involved actually buy this and are driven by desperation for sex is going to be a very stable marriage, more often than not. And a marriage without finding out if you are sexually compatible is stupid.

Not all married couples want children, or can support them. Some people don’t dare have children for health reasons, or just don’t think they would be good parents. Trying to strongarm these people into having children is wrong. So is lying about condoms, convincing people don’t work or that they spread disease.

And marriage only protects you from disease when both partners are 100% faithful, which is hardly universal; I doubt that it’s even a majority.

It’s easy to understand; it’s just stupid and obnoxious. Other religions say the same exact thing, although at least most aren’t as pushy about converting everyone. As said, why believe you over them, when every last one of you has zero evidence ? And it’s stupid because Chrisitanity is itself stupid.

And low level drug dealers don’t end up with most of the money either.

As said, pay taxes on your church; we are carrying you on our backs. And it is necessary for everyone to pay his or her fair share for the upkeep of society, like public education.

King/Pope/Duke/Emperor : “Translate it the way I’ve told you, or I’ll have your fingers torn off.” Old time rulers were not fun people to disappoint. Who needs a conspiracy when you’ve got an army or an Inquisition ?
And my “beef” with atheism ? It’s boring; prosaic. The truth often is.

14

As a Christian I have no particular beef with atheists. I think they’re wrong and I’m right, but it doesn’t affect my daily life whatsoever. One of my neighbors is a Mormon family, another set of neighbors a bit further down the road are two men who have been in a relationship for decades, on the other side, I have some Baptists. None of them believe the same things about religion that I do, and it has absolutely zero effect on my life one way or the other.

People who are actively anti-Christian I do have a problem with. I likewise have a serious problem with people who try to lump Protestant fundamentalists in the same group as Catholics like myself; we’re from totally different theological schools of thought. There’s actually very little overlap in the things that matter.

One thing I do notice about gays is (when I say gays I mean primarily the ones who bitch about religion on this forum, not necessarily homosexuals in general), they focus almost exclusively on the parts of Christianity that deal with homosexuality. I can understand that, as people are innately likely to concern themselves with what hits closest to home. But people I think sometimes forget that the stuff about sex in general and homosexuality in particular is not a significant portion of Christianity. I can count on one hand the number of times my parish Priest has even brought up issues like that in the past twenty years.

Also, while it’s not a position that makes me popular, I disagree with Miller that he’s having sex. There’s a different between sexually stimulating acts and sex itself, I don’t believe it is actually possible for two men to have sex. But obviously that’s just a debate concerning definition.

15

The opposite of Atheism isn’t Christianity, the opposite of Atheism is Theism. Both Atheism and Theism are too vague and general, IMO, for anyone to have any “beef” with either, other than to say “That’s wrong.” Some atheists are total jackasses, as are some theists. But that has nothing to do with their beliefs.

Their are specific schools of thought which are atheist. Ayn Rand and her followers are atheists, as are Secular Humanists. Communists are atheists in a narrow sense, although Marxism shares many common characteristics with religion. You could have a beef with any of those schools of thought, but I don’t think you can have a beef with atheism, per se. (Other than believing it is false.)

16

I’m paying taxes to support atheist schools? Goddamn, that’s gotta stop.

My main beef with atheism is the lack of good T-shirts.

17

It’s hard to find fault with what other people believe. Just because it’s not what I choose to believe it doesn’t make it wrong . And what you’ve said about them having a hard on for Christianity isn’t what I’ve seen , especially here. Even the atheists who outright bash Christianity still make lucent points that help me, as a Christian, see their perspective and for me that’s what being a Christian is primarily about. Love thy neighbor. I’m no good at quoting scripture but there is one that goes , basically, They will know you are Mine , because of how you love one another. Or something to that effect. I guess for a few atheists, what I find most disturbing, is their ability to judge just like they are God. Really giving no thought to their neighbor or what their feelings are. It is really a fault I find with myself, though. I used to judge people not just in my head, but to their face . No good for me now.

18

Atheism and “anti-Christianity” are two different things. You can be an atheist without being anti-Christian and you can be anti-Christian without being an atheist.

A large number of atheists started off as Christians. Some atheists have misconceptions about Christians but you can’t generalize and say that all of them do. I don’t.

What some of them do is generalize, just like you’re generalizing about atheists.

Baloney.

A demonstrably false teaching, obviously, since untold millions of people and animals manage to have sez without being married.

  1. Gay people have kids all the time.
  2. What does having kids necessarily have o do with being married (or having sex/)?
  3. Is it a sin for infertile or old people to have sex? Should old people be allowed to get married?

This is a distinction without a difference. It’s still intolerant, insufferably sanctimonious, uneducated, disingenuous, judgemental, callous, intrusive and arrogant.

I fail to see how you finger-wagging “get MARRIED” qualification changes anything. It’s still incredibly irresponsible to impose this ridiculous religious standard on anyone but yourselves.

Who the hell says you have to do that? Not atheists, that’s for sure.

I don’t care what you think your religion says. Stay out of my face. If my religion tells me to piss on your shoes, does that mean it’s not rude for me to piss on your shoes?

Why is the laughable arrogance of that statement so hard for YOU to understand?

There is no drive by anyone to teach “immorality” in schools, certainly not by atheists (who are too much of a minority to have much power over school boards). This is a total strawman.

I suppose by “attacks,” you mean criticism, skepticism and scholarship. The Bible is very flawed body of literature and is a clearly human creation. It contains both great and lousy writings but it’s arguably the most historically significant body of literature ever put on paper so it deserves to be studied seriously, critically, methodically. The fact that silly claims of inerrancy or literal historicity crumble easily even under the most cursory study does not mean that the bible is being “attacked.” It’s only some ridiculous claims ABOUT the Bible that are being attacked.

This is another strawman. Criticism of the Bible has little to do with translational issues because most critical study is done in the original languages. The myriad problems with sustaing claims of Biblical literalism or inerrantsm are present right there in the Hebrew and Greek. Translation has nothing to do with (although I’ll grant that you might have heard that claim made by atheists who didn’t know what they were talking about).

19

Aw, come on. Who can deny the glow we get from gathering in fellowship in the antichurch, singing Amazing grace/How unlikely that sounds, or How Great Thou Aren’t, or Holy, Holy? Hardly, or many, many more!

20

Your powers of divination rank right up there with “Modern medicine, cameras, mirrors, explosives”. Clearly you are the chosen one.

To the OP: What the hell? You’re not bitching about atheism. You are, as has been pointed out, bitching about anti-Christianity. Learn the difference.

And who, precisely, is teaching immorality in schools? Because I wanna get involved in that curriculum.