I missed the part where Trump was criticizing the people (or in context, those who wish to immigrate here) in these countries, just that the countries themselves were shitholes.
And before you bring up the “Mexico is sending their rapists” comment, are you saying that the friendly people you know from Laos are the ones wanting to immigrate here?
IOW, in this short thread, we have had many posters here agree that some countries are shitholes, but when Trump says it, it is bad because we all know that we hate Trump and that he is an asshole, so let’s put this one on top of the pile.
And the even larger problem is how this will harm future negotiations.
Imagine if we have a disagreement on something, but we sit down and have a conversation about how to work it out. That’s a good thing, right? But, suppose we can’t work it out, and I want to embarass you by telling the media something you said in a frank discussion with me.
Are you going to want to try to work something out with me in the future? Are you going to lay your opinion or comment out there for me if I’m just going to use it against you?
No, there won’t even be private, let alone public negotiations because it all gets put on CNN for a cheap political win.
The left still can’t understand that this is WHY Trump got elected in the first place!
While “shithole” is an unpresidential term to use, there are, in fact, some countries that are quite shitty. Haven’t numerous Dopers described North Korea, for instance, in equally blunt language?
He was talking about immigration, not foreign aid. He was talking about whether to let Haitians stay in the US. You know, the ones who left after the earthquake.
So don’t pretend it isn’t a racist comment about the people.
In 2015, 35% of black immigrants from Africa - you know, that shithole continent - had a college degree. Which is higher than the percentage of Americans with one. So maybe the are.
Do you have any idea of what the word diplomacy means? Trump is not sitting in a bar complaining about other countries. He is (unfortunately) the President of the United States. He was in the Oval Office. He has to have some self control.
What he is doing is destroying the reputation of the United States throughout the world. Imagine someone competing with the Chinese for a deal in Africa now. Good luck with that.
Imagine Trump as the VP of sales of the Acme Corporation. His sales team is trying to close a big deal with S & H Enterprises. It is going well, until Trump posts on Twitter calling the S&H products crap and their CEO a moron. Is that what you want in a president? Because that seems to be what you are supporting.
Yeah…It never ceases to amaze me what Trump apologists will now excuse in the President of the United States…and how much that standard has changed for them from what it was when Obama was President.
In addition to what Voyager said, we are back at the point made by RickJay and others: The context is very important here. If he had said that the countries were shitholes and we have to do all we can to help people escape from them and make a better life for themselves, that would not have created nearly the uproar of saying they are shitholes and complaining about why we have to take in people from those countries.
And, it is not as if these comments were made in a vacuum. There is a pattern here: From the way he continued to insist that the Central Park Five were guilty in the face of compelling evidence otherwise to what he said about the White Supremacist Rally in Charlottesville, there is a pattern that is impossible to deny here.
Other have explained the difference better, but I have to add that refugees/defectors from North Korea should be encouraged to do so, especially when they will tell us secrets that we need a lot of nowadays.
Wow! “Since 1973.” It’s taking longer than we thought, indeed!
Double wow.
@ UltraVires — Satisfy my curiosity, please. That Trump’s sentence contained the phrase “shithole countries” is no longer in dispute. Please propose an alternate sentence with that phrase that he might have uttered in which the context was NOT to oppose immigration from these countries.
I agree that culture is not de facto a good thing. Most cultures are sexist, for example.
On the other hand, Trump didn’t say that the countries were shitholes, he said that we don’t want people from shithole countries. Our country was mostly populated by people from shithole countries (they’ve improved since), by people who wanted a chance to build something better and to be recognized for being honest and hard working, not screwed over by their local kleptocracy. So your friend’s defense had nothing to do with the topic at hand. He changed the topic to something defensible and defended that, to placate you.
“Elitist Dem voters called my beautiful state ‘flyover country’. They’re ignoring us, that’s why I voted for Trump!” - Trump supporter, paraphrased, 2017
“Why are you so offended when Trump calls it like it is? Those countries *are *shitholes!” - Trump supporter, paraphrased, 2018
Honestly, I don’t care what he thinks those countries are like… privately. But he’s the voice of our nation. Most of us will never meet anyone from those countries, but they know who Trump is, and that he speaks *for *us. He’s making us look rude, uncultured, and ignorant- he’s basically every “ugly American” stereotype.
He’s making enemies left and right, and all over the planet. Hell, *England *doesn’t want him to come visit. Has he improved US relations with anyone? Who’s going to have our back when things go sideways?
I think our relationship with Israel is better than it was under Obama.
I suspect NATO and our other allies will “have our back” pretty much as much as they always have, which is to say, it’s a bit of a mixed bag, but I’m not terribly concerned about it.
He did say whatever he said in private. That’s why there’s no video or transcript available to clarify exactly what was said. It’s just Dick Durbin leaking his version of what was said in a private meeting and President Trump’s and others saying he didn’t say that.