If Trump used the n-word and grabbed his secretary’s tits during a Cabinet meeting, do you think everyone there should keep it quiet? You know, for the good of the country.
And why is it that you have never mentioned Lindsey Graham as a confirming source for the comments? Just want to make this into a partisan issue, eh?
I suspect Durbin was more interested in the political harm it would cause Trump than the international harm it would cause America. One might even say he put “party before country”.
My mom recently came back from a trip to Uganda, which I’m sure is one of the countries that Trump would consider a shithole. And yet, they’re doing a heck of a lot more for refugees than the US is. If Uganda is a shithole, then what does that make us, when we can’t even live up to their standards?
nevermind
I think you don’t understand the dynamics of the issue at all. Durbin had every reason to downplay the comment: his clear priority is to get a DACA fix, and it is such a high priority for him that he appears willing to shut down the government to achieve that.
Obviously, going public with this example of Trump’s continued history of racism does not bring a deal closer. More like closer to blowing negotiations up, really.
But again, it’s like Lindsey Graham is a non-entity when listening to conservatives discuss this issue. Makes sense, I guess, because Republicans also pretended he didn’t exist when he ran for President. Shrug.
Of course Uganda is helping refugees. The country is full of Christians.
Perhaps. He could get DACA fixed tomorrow if he was willing to agree to Trump’s other asks. I think DACA is probably one of Durbin’s various priorities, but not the most important one to him. Maybe it’s just the cynic in me, but I’m not confident that the Democrats have not decided that a broken / repealed DACA might fire up Hispanics to vote for them in 2018, and that therefore it’s in their political interest to not have a successful negotiation that results in a DACA fix.
You got me there. I admit to not paying much attention to Senator Graham.
Yes, it is the skeptic in you. This is so out of touch with what’s going on. Graham and Durbin see this issue the exact same way. Thinking of these negations as a partisan issue is simply an error.
Of course, let’s also keep in mind that they are negotiating with Trump, who neither understands anything about immigration nor does he actually care about DACA. I could just as easily speculate that Trump said those vile things to appeal to his white nationalist base and to try to blow up talks - a racist twofer, if you will.
Of course not, and I’m sure you can see the difference. A congressman shouldn’t cover it up if Trump pulled out a pistol and murdered his secretary either. We are talking about a limited and important thing: the ability to share ones view frankly in a discussion in order to come to a compromise. If we each speak frankly, then perhaps we get an insight to where the other party is coming from and can reach that compromise. If you use these supposed to be private discussion in order to violate that expectation, then there will be no more frank discussions.
And Lindsey Graham didn’t leak the story; he confirmed it. Plus he’s not a real Republican anyways.
You are creating a definition that nobody else uses. The level or quantity of shitholiness of a particular country has nothing to do with how it treats refugees. Nor is it a description of the people involved.
Imagine if you go to a hotel and the bathroom is dirty, the beds are stained, the air conditioner leaks water on the floor and the neighbors get into a drunken brawl and the police are called. As you are leaving and exclaim that the place is a shithole, are you referring to the owners, the desk clerk, and the maids?
Fair enough, I’m open to being wrong about things and learning from my fellow Dopers.
Out of idle curiosity, what do you think about the US adopting a merit-based immigration system similar to Canada or Australia? Do you think it would be an improvement over what we have today or a move in the wrong direction?
Having been involved in many Washington negotiations, there is no general assumption of confidentiality in such talks beyond what the participants volunteer themselves to be held to. In fact, one has got to pretty pretty fucking stupid to go into talks believing that there is a betrayal of one of the participants goes to the press about what was said in the meeting. Trump is that level of naive, of course, but I can’t imagine that anyone who works in DC and isn’t part of his merry band of dilettantes believes in some imaginary code of silence in politics.
Had Graham said something like, “I’m just pushing this DACA thing because I need big contributions from immigration groups for my next election,” and Trump or Cotton repeated that to the press, my response would be that Graham shouldn’t say such stupid things in front of other people.
Gah, I hate it when people who don’t have the first clue of how DC works claim to know secret rules of politics that literally don’t exist.
The thing is, no matter how much you protest, it’s clear that Trump was talking about the PEOPLE from the countries he has a low opinion of. So when we see examples of kind people in terrible countries, that does indeed contradict Trump’s assertion that we need fewer immigrants from Africa and whatnot.
I can’t speak for the Canadian or Australian reasons for supporting such a policy, or how it may vary from their policies, but I think what you linked to is a set of ideas written by racists like Stephen Miller to appeal to racists like Donald Trump for political gain with a politics base that either openly embraces racism or doesn’t particularly care about racism because it doesn’t impact them personally.
I look around my neighborhood and see a whole lot of immigrants running stores, doing carpentry, being nannies, and doing all other sorts of really hard work for low pay and little respect that clearly wouldn’t be here under that policy. And all those immigrant workers I’m talking about are making a huge difference in the lives of others, for zero recognition. It is a shame. An embarrassment.
Heck, I’m not sure I would exist if that policy were in place several decades ago, as my mother and father might have never met.
Confirmation from Graham doesn’t matter because trumpies don’t view Graham as an actual Republican.
In the same spirit, here’s a quote from another RINO who doesn’t count:
“I can just say what was described in the meeting I had was identical to what was reported later in the news,” Flake said.”
(I can’t figure out how to link to a story on my Apple News feed, but it was posted to CNN under the title, “Trump slams Durbin, who he says ‘misrepresented’ his immigration comments” at 5:54pm today.)
The article also states:
Sure, didn’t happen, can’t prove it happened, Trump’s non-denials can’t be disproven, etc.
Has anyone told Trump that he’s the President? Everything he says to anyone that isn’t classified is said for public consumption. That’s part of the job. If he doesn’t like it, well, he knows what he can do about it.
Unless one feels that in the long run it is better for the American people know the true colors of their president than to be ignorant of them.
The essence of Perdue and Cotton’s denial perfidy becomes clearer:
Nope. It’s not a “reasonable descriptor”.
Are there countries with shanty towns, piles of garbage and polluted rivers, say? Yes.
But there are many countries in africa that don’t have any of that, and even the ones that do, why is it acceptable to cherry pick the worst parts and then generalize across the whole country?
Why can’t I pick up a tourist brochure and declare that this is the true scotsman africa?
I can certainly cherry pick awful images of urban decay and poverty from the US.
Labelling a whole country, let alone a whole continent a “shithole” is a deeply ignorant statement, and I just don’t understand why some are rushing to defend it. It doesn’t make the top 50 of stupid things Trump’s said, but that doesn’t make it reasonable.
No it isn’t. Our immigration policy has changed with many different congress. What you cite was added much later and was in no way the law of the land.
The US has every right (As Canada, Germany an others do) to restrict legal immigration to those who best contribute to American culture.
@ HurricaneDitka — In order for me to understand your point-of-view in context, I ask you to respond to the following:
Do you agree that “Trump and many Trumpists prevaricate with great enthusiasm”? I’m asking this as an independent question. I’m uninterested in an answer like “Even liars sometimes tell the truth.” I just want your Yes/No answer to
Resolved: Trump and many Trumpists prevaricate with great enthusiasm.