What atheists think, and why (in re: GEEPERS)

Great Debates
41

This. A million times, this.

Mrs. Map was raised Catholic just because some Portuguese traders HAPPENED to establish ties to the coast of southern India (a place she has never visited) in the 1500s, and you could work out all the CHANCE occurrences that led to a 16th-century seafaring country to have people enthusiastic about the teachings of one (of many) 1st-century Palestinian gurus…

Mrs. Map warned me not to bring up the “chance” aspect of this with my in-laws, even though it fascinates me. (I should mention that my in-laws are terrific folks who never bring up their beliefs unless asked, and we get along great.)

42

** “Why are you an atheist?”** Because there’s no reason not to be. This like asking “Why are your feet touching the ground most of the time?” Because I’m built that way.

"People across all kinds of cultures and throughout histories have religions, and many of them are pretty similar. Doesn’t that suggest they’re on to something?" People across all kinds of cultures did all sorts of shit in primitive times, some of which has survived to this day, including religion.

"Did something happen to you to make you an atheist?" Yes. I started enjoying full access to my brain.

"Are you angry at god?" Who’s he?

"Do you hate religion?" In the same sense that I hate smallpox.

"Do you think religion is evil?" Overall? Put all the Renaissance art and the literate sermons of Jonathan Edwards and Martin Scorcese movies and other stuff on one side, and all the genocide and hatred on the other, and I’d have to give you an easy Yes.

"Do you think religious people are stupid?" More so than irreligious people, but not by a whole lot. People are pretty stupid, religious folks more obviously so.

"Do you think religion should be stamped out or banned?" I think it WILL be stamped out and banned, eventually, but we’re a long way from that sort of enlightened thinking.
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43

Thanks for the link. I enjoy the way he explains the thinking while telling his own story.

44

Because I concluded I make fewer mistakes when I base my beliefs on a reality grounded in the scientific method, and not blind faith in someone else’s anecdotes or retelling of bronze age myths. I reduced my atheism down to this: I don’t believe in any invisible beings that interact with people in any way. No ghosts, spirits, souls, gods, angels, demons or any other invisible spooks.

Life is so much simpler when you are not always afraid of what the invisible spooks are going to do to screw up your life, or what you must do to influence the invisible spooks to make your life better. It is sort of a metaphysical Libertarianism; I am responsible for my life, I am not dependent on invisible spooks for the good things, nor can I blame them for the bad things. Life is hard enough without worrying about invisible spooks.

45

“Why are you an atheist?”

It’s a straightforward consequence of my sceptical outlook, I don’t believe things without evidence.

“People across all kinds of cultures and throughout histories have religions, and many of them are pretty similar. Doesn’t that suggest they’re on to something?”

And many of them are very different and contradictory. At best, most of them must be false, and there is no reason why they can’t all be untrue. This becomes more apparent when you look at single religions in detail, and find that it’s practitioners can’t agree on anything of substance.

“Did something happen to you to make you an atheist?”

There was no single event. I was never deeply indoctrinated into Christianity. Growing up, I mostly associated church events with boredom. I found some of the stories and parables meaningful (and still do), but I found the crucifixion baffling. When I became old enough to understand it, I found it absurd.

“Are you angry at god?”

I’m angry at those who use religion to promote their prejudices.

“Do you hate religion?”

Not as a whole, it’s part of our culture and history. As such, it’s a mix of the admirable and painful. I reserve my hate for religious extremism.

“Do you think religion is evil?”

Not intrinsically, it can be compatible with an ethical outlook, but there are plenty of examples where it has become repressive. As have various secular organisations and governments, but religion and bigotry is a particularly dangerous combination, and fuel for any conflict.

“Do you think religious people are stupid?”

There is no such thing as stereotypical theist. Possibly atheists are on average slightly better educated than theists.

“Do you think religion should be stamped out or banned?”

No, that would require horrendous levels of repression, and would be a violation of people’s rights. Abolishing tax breaks for religious institutions should be considered, but I’d be concerned about the possible impact on their community and charitable work, so I’m not sure I’d be willing to even go that far. What I would like is religion to dwindle away and become less of an influence on our lives, but trying to enforce this would be counter-productive.

46

"People across all kinds of cultures and throughout histories have religions, and many of them are pretty similar. Doesn’t that suggest they’re on to something?"

It indicates they are searching for answers, as are scientists and non believers. IMHO, they make the mistake of believeing they found them.
We can’t know what may or may not lie beyond this physical life, and IMHO, we don’t have to know. We do what we can in the here and now to make ourselves and the lives of those around us, and the lives of those to follow, a little better.
Whatever does or doesn’t happen when our bodies fail will resolve itself when the time comes. The idea that someone has to believe a certain dogma , or that a supreme being , creator of the universe, requires worship and obedience or we will be punished, no longer makes sense to me. IMO Christianity is a perversion of the actual message of Jesus Christ. {assuming he existed}

"Do you hate religion?"
No
Religion is a man made construct, and as such has the positive and negative aspects of mankind. As someone who came through religion to where I am now, I believe it is the right path for some people. That said, I will glady oppose and speak out against the ignorance, and judgemntal hatefulness that often comes from religion. I think the conflict that comes from challanging popular beliefs is nessecary for the growth of mankind, and is reflected in history.

**
“Do you think religious people are stupid?” **
Some are, but I wouldn’t use that as a general discription.
I think they have blinders on when it comes to certain things . We are intellectual and emotional beings and I don’t think it’s possible to completely separate those two aspects of our humanity. I can look back and understand why I was willing to embrace the beliefs I did. I think tradition, peer pressure, and cultural programing has a lot to do with it. I think the emotional appeal does also.

What I find unfortunate is how believers will reject and deny hard evidence to embrace tradition, even though thier own book tells them to value the truth and to not get caught up in the traditions of men.

47

Sounds like church.

48

Say good night, Gracie. :smiley:

49

Picking and choosing some questions from the list…

"Why are you an atheist?"

See question #3.

"People across all kinds of cultures and throughout histories have religions, and many of them are pretty similar. Doesn’t that suggest they’re on to something?"

People believe idiotic things, and communal reinforcement doesn’t lead to the truth, but suppression of unpopular beliefs.

"Did something happen to you to make you an atheist?"

I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian family. I was given literature from such sources as the Moody Bible Institute which, in my youth, I thought made good arguments for the veracity of the Bible and the Love of Jesus Christ, our Saviour. Not to mention the sermons in church every Sunday, Bible school, and association with other fundamentalists in and around the family. Questioning these beliefs was not an option in this society.

I was always interested in magic (the conjurer kind), and became acquainted with lectures, workshops and seminars given by CSICOP, James Randi, Paul Kurtz, Michael Shermer, Joe Nickell, Ray Hyman, and others of that ilk. They taught me how easily we can be fooled and how important it is to require evidence, and evaluate evidence for beliefs that challenge accepted knowledge.

From that start, it was an obvious jump to reject most of my religious upbringing. I sometimes go back to the Moody books and I now find it easy to pick out the falsehoods, special pleadings, and fallacies that once misled me.

Almost forgot…an important book that fits very well in the category of self-deception is How To Lie With Statistics, by Darrell Huff. Highly recommended for everyone.

"Are you angry at god?"

God who?

"Do you think religion is evil?"

It can be used as a justification for evil. It can also be used for good, but too often and too easily the scales are tipped the wrong way. “God says…” is the most dangerous phrase in our language.

50

I don’t know if I am an atheist, I am more of an agnostic. Plus there are hard and soft atheists. I think I want to be a theist, but deep down inside know I am not.

Cultures across the earth have religion, but that doesn’t make religion valid. The religions were vastly different across times and cultures, and could have very little in common with each other. The fact that religion is common is more of a sign that it isn’t real IMO and is more of an evolutionary byproduct (the same way in group/out group dynamics are virtually universal). Germ theory is real, but it was unheard of up until a couple hundred years ago.

On that subject, despite literally tens of thousands (as a very, very conservative estimate) of people claiming to have 2 way communication with a deity, not one came up with any meaningful scientific info that could’ve improved our quality of life. No advances in medicine, agriculture, etc. that couldn’t have been explained by the current culture’s level of expertise seem to have come from all these prophets. Which means either god isn’t real or is irrelevant. A god who can’t be bothered to explain that we should purify our drinking water and why we need to do that isn’t a god who deserves to be listened to, real or not.

I think the problem is more authoritarianism than religion. Studies on authoritarianism and Right Wing Authoritarianism find that there is something of an overlap between religious fundamentalism and authoritarianism. In Islamic societies the authoritarians support Islamist groups, in the West they support socially oppressive laws and economic injustice. I think religion is a magnet for dangerous people, but then again so are politics, law enforcement and the military. You can’t and shouldn’t abolish any of them. But certain things are a magnet for dangerous people, and we should be on guard for that.

I think religion is irrelevant and should play no role in major political, social or economic decisions. However what people do in their own lives isn’t up to me.

51

it’s the atheism version of church. I can heard the amens. A nonsense thread designed so that the OP could take a dig at me. yawn

52

I realize it was some sort of dig, but curious about your reaction to the views expressed here. Do they match your expectations? Did you see anything here you didn’t expect to?

53

Some folks are honestly trying to engage you. Isn’t it possible that some of us atheists really are trying to understand your thinking? And yes, correct what we see as misconceptions/misunderstandings on your part about some of our beliefs and arguments?

54

This isn’t an attack. This website is designed to fight ignorance, and you are profoundly ignorant on several topics. This doesn’t mean you’re stupid, it means you have information that is incorrect and you’re sticking to it.

This thread was an attempt to show you that your views of what atheism is are wrong.

55

Anyone noticing a pattern here? It doesn’t matter what I say, the atheist’s immediate response is to disagree with me. So I say it’s an attack, and oh of course, it’s not! They are merely educating me out of the goodness of their own hearts. LOL.

I may not be an expert in many things, but dang, surely I can be right on something just once. Cmon at least admit “sauteed in sarcasm” was kinda creative.

And for the record, no one has posted anything here that I haven’t heard a dozen or more times already. And I still think it’s BS. The OP obviously wants me to engage here for mere amusement, but keep me on a short leash. Not playing that game.

56

Um… Hello? Have you agreed with anything anyone else has said here?

Obviously, atheists are going to disagree with someone of pronounced religious faith. The thread is “What atheists think.” Atheists disagree with the religious.

“What’s two plus two, and don’t insult me with any of that ‘four’ guff.”

57

Starting with the obvious question: “Why are you an atheist?”
I find the idea of a god to be implausible and always have.

“People across all kinds of cultures and throughout histories have religions, and many of them are pretty similar. Doesn’t that suggest they’re on to something?”
No. It only suggests that people need to believe there’s more to themselves than there is.

“Did something happen to you to make you an atheist?”
No.

“Are you angry at god?”
No. That would be like being angry at the Easter Bunny.

“Do you hate religion?”
No. But I often find it annoying.

“Do you think religion is evil?”
I think sometimes it can be.

“Do you think religious people are stupid?”
No. I think they are self deluded to make themselves feel better.

“Do you think religion should be stamped out or banned?”
I don’t think it CAN be stamped out or banned. But I think sometimes it does more harm than good.

58

So far I’ve found nothing amusing about engaging in discussion with you, so I didn’t expect to be amused here. What I would like is for you to learn something about atheists because everything I have ever seen you post about them has been spectacularly wrong. So I thought you might be interested in learning something that might lead to a better starting point for future discussions. It’s disappointing that you’re not interested in making an effort, but I admit I’m not totally surprised. It’s also disappointing that you’ve heard atheists make these points before - that they don’t hate religion, don’t hate religious people, and so forth - and it’s made no impression and hasn’t stopped you from saying the kinds of derogatory things you say. I might be interested to hear how you reconcile your comments about atheists with the opinions they’ve expressed here.

59

You don’t know me, as I haven’t posted in any of the recent threads. FWIW, I’m an atheist who mostly posts in religion threads (to the extent I do) to argue for tolerance of the religious point of view. I have serious problems, for example, with Dawkins. So, although you don’t know me, I will say that you’ve misunderstood this thread. It’s not an attack. It’s a defense. You claim the opinions expressed are BS. What does that mean? That they’re wrong or that they’re dishonest? If the former, no matter (not the subject of this thread). If the latter, you’re way off base. Your attacking a cartoon verson of atheism is just as invalid as atheists attacking a cartoon verson of theism. To whom do you think you are speaking?

60

I hate to say “I told you so,” but…