Can someone confirm (besides the particular mod who sent the email) if this refers to signature lines. If so, the wording is very poorly constructed. A “post” to me means the content of either an original post or a response post itself, not miscellaneous things that might be in yoru signature. While I can see not attacking people or posting illegal information in your signature, the above rule is about keeping the posts themselves relevant discussion. Any signature is by definition is not going to be relevant to the post. By it’s nature it cannot be held to the same criteria as the post itself.
Is it prohibited to put any link in your signature, even to your home page? Or just apparently commercial websites? What, exactly, is allowed and disallowed, and what in fact is encouraged in signatures? Since not all of the rules about posts can be relevant to signatures, please make clear which rules are intended for each.
If you are a mod, and you are going to make a claim about the rules, it is incumbent on you not to just link to the forum rules. You should specifically quote the relevant rule. You may be surprised to find out that the rules are not as clearly stated as you believed.
Once you actually read the rules you are supposedly referencing, and you discover as I have that they do not clearly address this issue, please modify them to be more clear.
I’m not a mod. I don’t even play one on TV. But I believe that the rules are vague on purpose. This allows them to make case-by-case rulings, instead of having dumb set-in-concrete rules such as the “zero drug tolerance” rules in schools that get honor roll students kicked out for having Flonase in their back pack.
Also, try to keep in mind that the SDMB is not a democracy. The mods and admins run things as they see fit. It is a free-market model, because each and every one of us makes the choice each year whether to re-up or not. I don’t mean to seem like I’m sucking up to the mods and admins. They’ve certainly made rulings over the years that I thought were unfair or inconsistent. Sometimes they’ve even overturned those rulings. But I don’t think any of them, as a rule, have reacted well to directives from members about exactly how they need to go about cleaning up their act.
IANOM, but it seems to me that is your basic error. Your signature is a part of your post, whether or not it is germane to the topic. You are responsible for it being presented on the board, and you are responsible for its content.
No, the rule is about keeping blatantly promotional material off the board, whether it is in the body of the post, or in the signature.
I don’t see the logic here. The point of the “no spam” rule is to prohibit all promotional material; I don’t see why it would make a difference whether it is in the body of the post, or in the signature.
zero tolerance is more about sentencing than penal codes. and IMHO if you are giong to take the time to enforce the rule, it should at least be clearly stated and easily referenced.
Just because they can and do, doesn’t mean they should. Especially now that this is a pay site, but even if it wasn’t, on principles of fairness.
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Removing patronage is pointless if you aren’t going to communicate what led to it. Not that I’m planning on leaving.
In terms of that, I’m just sounding off. I expect that someone who is going to be making those kinds of judgements in the first place probably won’t be responsive to criticism. But it’s frustrating to be told ‘don’t do that’ and then not explain probably what the rules are.
That said, although it’s a comfort to be able to sound off, I really am interested in a legitimate answer to what is considered proper signature etiquette. Looking forward to thoughtful replies!
I guess it’s an issue of semantics. It’s technically a part of the overall post, but it’s certainly not a part of the body/message part of the post. If you look at the actual wording of the rules, when it is talking about global things that should legitimately apply to anything you write, like harrasing someone or breaking the law, it uses the phrase “posting materials”. Materials is a very broad term. However when it gets into posting commercial material, which really only makes sense when applying to the body of the post, it uses the phrase “posting messages”. Messages definitely implies the discussion portion of a post, and not globally to anything you write. Maybe that’s not their intent, but if so, it’s very unclear.
That may be your interpretation, and that may even be what the rule makers want, but it certainly does not actually say that.
Because a signature by definition can be nothing other than promotional. It’s certainly never intended to be relevant to the OP, that’s what the body of the post is for. It’s not for telling people your user name, that is added automatically by the board itself. Under your strict interpretation, no signature should exist. Do why do we have them?
If the mods want to draw a line some where, that’s fine. Maybe you can promote a quote or a humorous phrase but not any website. Maybe you can link to a website as long as it’s only a personal homepage. Maybe you can link to a commercial site as long as it doesn’t sell material products. Maybe you can have a link to a selling site as long as you don’t include any info about the site next to the link.
But any signature is by it’s very nature non-relevant to the OP and therfore a form of spam. So if you are going to draw a line somewhere, make it clear.
The thing is that your signature is part of what you post, too. Even though you don’t type it over again every time you click ‘submit’, you nevertheless post it right under your main text. There’s no reason to expect an exception for signatures.
It’s very clear: no advertising. You referenced it yourself, rather easily, in the OP.
If you don’t want to be a part of this system, nobody’s forcing you.
If you’re looking for an answer on signature etiquette, here it is: don’t put anything in a sig that wouldn’t fly in a post.
This rule really doesn’t make sense only for the body of a post. The foundation of the rule is that the SDMB doesn’t want Dopers to advertise to other Dopers, period, for a number of reasons–not that they want Dopers to stay on topic. There’s no other rule intended to keep Dopers on topic, in fact; although it’s bad Dopeiquette to hijack a thread and send it veering into another direction before the OP accomplishes what it sets out to do, there’s no reason you should get kicked off for it.
Sure it does. From your quoted text in the OP:
“Do not post…”
Whether in the main body, the subject line, your signature, your location field, your profile, or whatever, “posting” is the act of submitting text such that it can be made publically available. What you interpret “materials” to mean is irrelevant; “post” is used as a verb here, as in “I posted a new location line”, not as a noun, as in “Her post was full of vitriol”. A post (n) is the body text, but posting (v) is the act of making something publically available on the board, period.
Er, no. You’re the one making the strict interpretation: that a signature is useless unless it advertises something. Generally speaking, a signature conveys humor, an emotional plea, etc. or it is a place to include the Doper’s favorite quotes from authors, comedians, movies, TV, books, etc. which that Doper finds relevant to his/her life or general posting style, or just likes the sound of. There are lots and lots and lots of legitimate uses for a signature here, and advertising things isn’t one of them.
That’s not how spam is defined. “Spam” classically has three definitions (as opposed to SPAM, which has only one definition that’s good forever): (1) an advertisement, (2) an action or text repeated over and over again quickly with the intent of overloading a service or network, or (3) both. Advertisements are clearly stated to be verboten everywhere, and it’s impossible to overload the network with your signature alone as you’d have to post body text also. You’re creating opaqueness in the rules where it doesn’t actually exist, probably because you want to save face. You’ll do better by conceding that the rules are very clear (which they are) and either (a) dealing with it or (b) choosing another board.
All that said, I hope you choose this one, because at the very least we know you’re analytical!
I don’t think there is any implicit definition of the word “message” that differentiates between the body of the post and the signature. The body of the post and the signature both get posted when you hit submit. I can see no reasonable justification why they are not subject to the same rules. Demanding that the rules be so excruciatingly detailed as to address all possible interpretations and definitions is tedious and pedantic.
I guess it depends on your definition of “promotional”. Is my signature promotional?
This is an overly broad definition of “spam”, which is odd in light of your contention that the rules are unclear. Clarity cuts both ways.
We do not allow direct advertising of commercial interests in signatures. We do not want posts with little bits of spam on the end of them, that’s not conducive to building a community.
If we did allow such blatant use of the board for personal interests the board would be overflowing with advertising and nothing else. This is not the purpose of the board and not at all what we’re about.
We routinely remove spammers from this board for making posts that are free of real content and 100% advertising. We kill spammers on the first offense; we simply advise members of what is appropriate and hope they make the good choice themselves.
If you joined the board merely to advertise your product or service you will be disappointed. We hope you have other interests to share with our members.
And yes, we let you know in email, that was totally legit.
Here are some generally accepted things to know about sigs.
Generally, your sig should not be longer than the rest of your post.
No huge fonts in your sig, please.
Absolutely no sigs over four lines long. Tiny fonts don’t help.
When you change your sig, it is changed in past posts, too. All your old sigs are now replaced by your current signature.
Think before clicking the Show Your Sig button. Would your sig seem out of place next to what you are about to post? Sigs are not mandatory, and nobody will be disappointed if you show no signatures at all for weeks.
Actually, I want to adapt the OPs interpretation of the rules. That way, not only could I advertise my business in my sig line, I could use it to troll, to call other posters names, and to generally be a jerk! I say, let’s do it!
Sorry askeptic, I am having to move my site to a different server due to various pesky legal issues, but I hope to be able to serve you with my financial services in the very near future.
Dear Friend,
I am writing to you with sincerity in my heart and money in my bank. My esteemed friend, I am a high-ranking New Zealand air-force colonel. My beloved wife was called to God recently, and she left, besides an inconsolable husband and 12 children, a substantial estate worth $40,000,000. Alas, my trusted friend Arnold, due to the complexities of New Zealand tax and estate law {and the perfidy of bureaucrats}, I am unable to withdraw my lawful inheritance myself. The salary of a New Zealand air-force colonel is meagre, and thus our children, so dear to the heart of my wife and myself, must go shoeless and hungry, while our monies lies fallow in the bank, enriching only the money-changers of the Temple.
But I write to you, dear friend Arnold, not as one seeking charity. I need a trustworthy party to facilitate a business transaction. I cannot myself, woefully, be allowed to withdraw the money so needed to feed and clothe our hungry children, but it will be allowable by the Government to send the money to a trustworthy overseas investor and boon friend. Your estimable financial services were gratefully brought to my notice, and if you are delighted to be agreeable, I can arrange to transfer the monies to your business, from where I can with satisfaction withdraw it at our mutual convenience. Thus my dear children will be aided in their want.
As well as the satisfaction of helping a bereaved and hopeless felllow man in my hour of need, esteemed friend, you will be of course entitled to a brokerage fee of 10% of the deposit, or $4,000,000. I believe thus the transaction will be to our mutual benefits, and you will see that I do not ask for your charity, though I write to you knowing that you are a man with the milk of kindness in your heart who would do this thing for kindness. But I cannot ask this of you.
All that is needed for your benefit from this properous transaction is a processing fee of $5,000, my trusted Arnold, with which to expeditiously speed the slow and, my heart aches to say it, perfidious labyrinth of my home country’s estate laws. I sincerely await your affirmative reply, and I will replenish you with details of how our lucrative arrangement will be consumnated. I quiver with pecuniary eagerness at our mutual prosperities, dear friend, and I beg you as a humble supplicant to please think, as Christ did of the children.
Your humble servant,
Colonel Case Sensitive
Colonel {Bereaved}, New Zealand air-force
Dear Case Sensitive, that sounds very fishy. Why couldn’t you get your money out of a New Zealand bank? Now if you told me that your money was kept, for safekeeping, somewhere in West Africa (Ivory Coast) and you needed help getting it out of the country secretly, then it might make more sense. Are you sure that’s not what you meant?