What "Conservative Values" aren't based on bigotry?

[El_DeLuxo]

@Bone

First of all, Trump represents everyone in America, even those that didn’t vote for him or who actively oppose him.

Speak for yourself.

[Scylla]

@Little_Nemo

Scylla, take a break.

Can’t. Truth never rests.

[running_coach]

@Tempe_Jeff

My supported assertion was power couples in Washington D.C. a rather high exposure environment. I cited evidence to back up my claim. I didn’t realize the Goal Posts were motorized… LOL

Pew Research Center
(Second chart down)Interracial marriage- Is a good thing/doesn’t matter/is a bad thing
Political Party
Republican 28/60/12
Democrats 49/45/6

Age
18-29 54/42/5
30-49 41/52/6
50-64 33/55/12
Over 65 26/60/14

YouGov(PDF) pg 92
Moral Acceptability of Interracial Marriage Acceptable/Wrong

Republicans 72/28
Democrats 88/12

[Sam_Stone]

@iiandyiiii

Then you will be partially responsible for him and anything he does should he be re-elected. But I have a feeling you have some sort of attachment towards blaming your own actions on Democrats and progressives, based on these posts and past discussions we’ve had.

Your actions are your own, and no one else is responsible. If you support an abuser of women, that’s on you, not on anyone else. No one is forcing you to vote for misogyny, bigotry, and hatefulness. That’s a choice that you appear to want to make. I hope you’ll change your mind.

Did you vote for misogyny when you voted for Bill Clinton? Are you partly responsible for a young intern having a cigar stuffed up her vagina in the oval office by the world’s most powerful man?

If you supported Hillary over Trump, you must believe that women who accuse powerful men of sexual assault are ‘bimbos’. Hillary helped with the attacks on the women who accused Bill of assault. This was widely known during the election, so if you voted for her that’s on you, right?

Or, we could admit that people vote strategically, and that it’s a binary system so it’s possible to hold your nose and vote for someone if you think the alternative would be worse, while not supporting every behaviour of your chosen candidate.

It’s also a time-worn tactic to accuse your opponents of personally believing and supporting every bad thing their candidate has ever done, while giving your own side a pass for voting for flawed individuals. And both the Democrats and Republicans have more than their share of very flawed individuals.

And in any event, don’t blame me - I voted for Kodos.

[Pantastic]

@Velocity

You weren’t asking about sum totals, though; you were asking for examples of “X that aren’t Y.” So people provided some examples of “X that aren’t Y.”

I have no idea what you mean about ‘sum totals’ or how that phrase would be relevant in this context. I specifically asked for non-bigoted conservative values in the OP, and what you listed is what people managed to come up with. You asked to discuss that list, and I agreed and attempted to discuss the list. Now your complaint seems to be that I am discussing that list and not some supposed non-bigoted values that weren’t mentioned.

It would be like as if someone asked, “What NFL quarterbacks aren’t white Caucasian?” and then someone names McNabb, Vick, Prescott, Griffin, etc. but then you say, “That’s not the sum total of NFL quarterbacks.”

No, it’s more like if someone asked, then someone else gave the list, then you asked to discuss those names, then I discussed the names, and you started saying ‘that’s not the sum total of NFL quarterbacks’.

[iiandyiiii]

@Sam_Stone

Did you vote for misogyny when you voted for Bill Clinton? Are you partly responsible for a young intern having a cigar stuffed up her vagina in the oval office by the world’s most powerful man?

I didn’t vote for Bill Clinton. If I had, yes, I would have been partially responsible for electing an accused sexual assaulter.

If you supported Hillary over Trump, you must believe that women who accuse powerful men of sexual assault are ‘bimbos’. Hillary helped with the attacks on the women who accused Bill of assault. This was widely known during the election, so if you voted for her that’s on you, right?

I would bear some responsibility for Hillary’s actions had she won, but the alternative was much, much worse. Hillary has not been accused of sexual assault, nor has she bragged about sexual assault and violating the consent of women. She said some awful things. I supported her due to the importance of trying to prevent someone who bragged about abusing women, was credibly accused many times, said many racist things, and much more.

Or, we could admit that people vote strategically, and that it’s a binary system so it’s possible to hold your nose and vote for someone if you think the alternative would be worse, while not supporting every behaviour of your chosen candidate.

I’ve never said any vote = support for “every behavior” of the candidate. I’ve said that supporters bear some responsibility for their chosen candidate’s words and actions. If you voted for and continue to support Trump, you bear some responsibility for the permanent separation of children from their families which will likely result in life-long trauma. You bear some responsibility for how Trump and his allies treat women who dare to speak up about their experiences of abuse and assault by powerful men. And much more, of course.
[/quote]

It’s also a time-worn tactic to accuse your opponents of personally believing and supporting every bad thing their candidate has ever done, while giving your own side a pass for voting for flawed individuals.

Agreed. I haven’t done this.

[Pantastic]

@Tempe_Jeff

Before you all get all about what Christians should do; Jesus never advocated for government helping the poor at all.

I didn’t say anything about “what Christians should do”, I simply pointed out that none of the examples of non-bigoted conservative values that people managed to come up with included anything that Jesus advocated for, or even anything remotely like something Jesus called for. It’s funny that I get accused of acting on caricatures of conservatives, but then we have the “Jesus would object to feeding poor children” type posts from conservatives in the thread.

[GIGObuster]

@Scylla

Can’t. Truth never rests.

Indeed, although showing that ET was a Drug dealer, a criminal, and a rapist was not needed to be demonstrated…

[Bone]

@iiandyiiii

I’ve never said any vote = support for “every behavior” of the candidate. I’ve said that supporters bear some responsibility for their chosen candidate’s words and actions. If you voted for and continue to support Trump, you bear some responsibility for the permanent separation of children from their families which will likely result in life-long trauma. You bear some responsibility for how Trump and his allies treat women who dare to speak up about their experiences of abuse and assault by powerful men. And much more, of course.

That “some” is doing a ton of work. Unless you did everything humanly possible to defeat Trump, then you bear some responsibility for all of his actions too. I won’t quantify how much, but it certainly is some. Did you donate all your money to opposing campaigns? Hold rallies, bundle donations, prothlesize everywhere you went? Go out canvasing? Did you relocate to a swing state to make your vote more powerful? Then you bear some responsibility.

This tactic of trying to shame or guilt or blame doesn’t work when it’s so baseless.

[GIGObuster]

@Bone

That “some” is doing a ton of work. Unless you did everything humanly possible to defeat Trump, then you bear some responsibility for all of his actions too. I won’t quantify how much, but it certainly is some. Did you donate all your money to opposing campaigns? Hold rallies, bundle donations, prothlesize everywhere you went? Go out canvasing? Did you relocate to a swing state to make your vote more powerful? Then you bear some responsibility.

This tactic of trying to shame or guilt or blame doesn’t work when it’s so baseless.

Actually what you are saying excludes a mess of middles. I will have to say that many who are not Republicans do bear some responsibility; but in the end most Republicans are more responsible when they are doing the three monkey act when confronted by the reality that Trump and virtually all Republican congress critters are grabbing the idiot, bigoted and even the crazy balls with gusto.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/04/trumps-insults-idiot-woodward-806455

[iiandyiiii]

@Bone

That “some” is doing a ton of work. Unless you did everything humanly possible to defeat Trump, then you bear some responsibility for all of his actions too. I won’t quantify how much, but it certainly is some. Did you donate all your money to opposing campaigns? Hold rallies, bundle donations, prothlesize everywhere you went? Go out canvasing? Did you relocate to a swing state to make your vote more powerful? Then you bear some responsibility.

This tactic of trying to shame or guilt or blame doesn’t work when it’s so baseless.

This reasoning absolves those southern Americans who supported slavery, secession, and Jim Crow. YMMV, but that’s compolete bullshit, IMO. If you supported George Wallace, or some other Jim Crow supporting politician, then you bear some small but real bit of responsibility for the horrors of Jim Crow. Would you disagree with my assertion that “shame, guilt, and blame” are entirely appropriate for supporters of Jim Crow? I believe the same reasoning is applicable today.

But the rest is entirely reasonable criticism. I should have done more to oppose Trump. I should be doing more now. I don’t do much beyond vote, donate money, and argue online. It’s entirely reasonable to urge me to do more.

[Scylla]

@iiandyiiii

This reasoning absolves those southern Americans who supported slavery, secession, and Jim Crow. YMMV, but that’s compolete bullshit, IMO. If you supported George Wallace, or some other Jim Crow supporting politician, then you bear some small but real bit of responsibility for the horrors of Jim Crow. Would you disagree with my assertion that “shame, guilt, and blame” are entirely appropriate for supporters of Jim Crow? I believe the same reasoning is applicable today.

But the rest is entirely reasonable criticism. I should have done more to oppose Trump. I should be doing more now. I don’t do much beyond vote, donate money, and argue online. It’s entirely reasonable to urge me to do more.

I voted for Obama and apparently they were separating kids and putting them in cages too. Was it ok when Obama did it, and is that my fault as well?

[iiandyiiii]

@Scylla

I voted for Obama and apparently they were separating kids and putting them in cages too. Was it ok when Obama did it, and is that my fault as well?

They weren’t separating kids from families under Obama; that was a new and deliberate policy by Trump’s administration because they believe hurting migrant families was good policy to serve as a deterrent to future migrants. According to their own words, anyway.

As for cages, yes, we Obama voters bear some portion of the responsibility for kids (and adults) being kept in inhumane facilities under the Obama administration, IMO. I take that responsibility and intend to learn from it (along with all the other mistakes made by the Obama administration) for my future voting habits. I believe Americans should hold ourselves and our leaders to high standards. I think Obama did more good than harm, but the harm he did is real and we should learn from it to try and make sure it doesn’t happen again.

[GIGObuster]

@Scylla

I voted for Obama and apparently they were separating kids and putting them in cages too. Was it ok when Obama did it, and is that my fault as well?

When I mentioned that Trump and virtually all Republican congress critters are grabbing the idiot, bigoted and even the crazy balls with gusto, I forgot that on top of those things they are also grabbing and using the big lie ball too. It is really sad to see many conservatives like you falling for that.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/09/politics/fact-check-trump-claim-obama-separated-families/index.html

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump said Tuesday that he’s not considering reimplementing his administration’s “zero-tolerance” immigration policy, dredging up his earlier claim that President Barack Obama’s administration separated migrant families.
“President Obama separated children. They had child separation. I was the one who that changed it,” Trump said.

Facts First: As discussed in a previous fact check, this is false and requires context. Under Obama, children were separated from parents only when authorities had concerns for their well-being or could not confirm that the adult was in fact their legal guardian, but not as a blanket policy.
The family separation crisis was triggered last spring when Trump tweaked the status quo he inherited from Obama and ramped up strict enforcement of federal immigration laws that were already on the books.

Under past administrations, some border-crossers were occasionally prosecuted, and were thus separated from their families.

The main difference between Trump and Obama, experts have said, centers on how they handled immigrants caught near the US-Mexico border. Under Obama, the Justice Department was given broad discretion on who should face criminal charges, and federal prosecutors rarely went after families.

But in April 2018, then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced that the Justice Department would prosecute 100% of illegal border-crossers in a policy known as “zero-tolerance.” Adults went to jails and awaited criminal proceedings. Children were sent to detention centers run by the Department of Health and Human Services, and some were eventually placed in foster care.

This specific change is what led to the widespread separation of parents and children, according to Jessica Bolter, a researcher with the nonpartisan Migration Policy Institute who has published 200 pages of reports on Trump’s immigration policies.

One thing is true about the cages, but it is missing a lot of context:

Many of these processing facilities do pre-date the Trump administration, and were constructed during the Obama administration. These include those where migrants are kept in fenced enclosures, the so-called cages.

Given the recent rise in migrants coming to the border, the Trump administration has continued to use the chain-link style fencing enclosures – at least while migrants are being processed following apprehension.

And according to a watchdog report released by the Department of Homeland Security’s inspector general’s office last fall, immigration authorities have sometimes held migrant children in these processing facilities for much longer than they should be.

Typically shelters maintained by Health and Human Services Office of Refugee Resettlement, the office which handles facilities for unaccompanied minors, do not maintain the same chain-link type fencing often associated with the description of “cages.” They do, however, confine the children to the shelter properties and many did become overcrowded amid family separations.

[Scylla]

Ok. So “experts” quoted by CNN say it got bad under Trump. I see.

[iiandyiiii]

@Scylla

Ok. So “experts” quoted by CNN say it got bad under Trump. I see.

It was Trump’s White House Chief of Staff and Attorney General who called the newly instituted family-separation policy a “deterrent” to migrants:

Trump administration family separation policy | Motivation

[tomndebb]

@Tempe_Jeff

Here’s a link for you, since google is above your pay-grade.

Dial it back or take it to he BBQ Pit.
Your persistent swipes at posters with whom you disagree regarding the use of Google is going to begin collecting you Warnings.

[ /Moderating ]

[Scylla]

When Trump was saying there was a crisis and CNN and Democrats were claiming we was making it up so he could get funding, and the Democrats withheld the funding ( kids in cages cuz of Trump is a great story for CNN and Dems,) do the Democrats have blame?

Every Democratic Presidential candidate said that they would no longer make crossing the border illegal, so when immigrants die swimming the Rio Grande will those deaths be on them?

Do Democrats actually care about the immigrants or is it all about withholding funds and getting mileage out of the crisis?

[Scylla]

@iiandyiiii

It was Trump’s White House Chief of Staff and Attorney General who called the newly instituted family-separation policy a “deterrent” to migrants:

Trump administration family separation policy - Wikipedia

Thanks. Didn’t know that. Or forgot.

[iiandyiiii]

@Scylla

When Trump was saying there was a crisis and CNN and Democrats were claiming we was making it up so he could get funding, and the Democrats withheld the funding ( kids in cages cuz of Trump is a great story for CNN and Dems,) do the Democrats have blame?

This didn’t happen. In the lead up to the shutdown, the Democrats passed numerous bills that provided the security and migrant housing funding. It was the Senate that did nothing and held up the funding. The Democrats passed bills with funding levels that had previously been agreed to on a bipartisan basis. Wherever you’re getting your information from on this, it’s false.

Every Democratic Presidential candidate said that they would no longer make crossing the border illegal, so when immigrants die swimming the Rio Grande will those deaths be on them?

Crossing the border isn’t always illegal, and no one has presented any evidence that making it illegal deters migration. People don’t risk their lives unless they’re absolutely desperate. When the choice is life or death, desperate people are going to do what it takes to try and survive, which may mean swimming a river. The only things that could deter that would be making the circumstances better in their home countries such that they don’t need to leave in order to survive.

Do Democrats actually care about the immigrants or is it all about withholding funds and getting mileage out of the crisis?

The facts and actual history do not support your assertions about the actions of Democrats in Congress and elsewhere.