What constitutes "acceptable" cultural appropriation?

In My Humble Opinion
81

Good question.

On the other hand, I was previously unaware that you were Japanese and American Indian. I mean, you must be, right, because who are you to tell these people that they *should *be offended? :wink:

That’s the crux of it, for me. I’m all for not offending people. But I’m also not a huge fan of people speaking for others in this context. If what I do offends you because it comes from your culture and I’m doing it all wrong and disrespecting you and yours, then it’s inappropriate cultural appropriation, and please tell me and I’ll think really hard about my motivations (“check my privilege”) and most likely I’ll knock it off. …at least in your presence. I will probably not assume that you are a spokesperson for your race/ethnicity/country of ancestry/gender/profession/etc., though. If I get that feedback from many people, I will consider that perhaps this is more than a personal preference (which, again, I will generally attempt to honor in your presence, even if it is only a personal preference) and consider it true inappropriate cultural appropriation.

I would not, for example, ever use a Lakota pipe in one of my eclectic rituals; I am very clear that the rules around the training and use of the tool forbid me from using it, and to use it anyway would be being a jerk. But I don’t believe that because someone not-Lakota told me the Lakota might be offended. I believe that because I’ve talked to actual Lakota people about the process and meaning behind becoming a recognized pipe bearer, and I haven’t done that work and am not likely to do that work. Likewise, if I’m invited to a Vodou ritual, I’ll wear white and cover my head and I can spit rum with the best of them, but I don’t have the cultural or religious right to do that on my own time, or to teach anyone else to do it - not because some Catholic told me it might offend the Vodou practitioners, but because Vodou practitioners have told me it’s inappropriate and unsafe to do so without first studying with them and undergoing their initiations and training.

I posted an “inappropriate cultural appropriation” article about this year’s Sugar Skull costume craze on my Facebook this morning, noting that I really couldn’t see the disrespect or harm that would indicate to me “inappropriate cultural appropriation.” First response was from a woman with a branch of her recent family tree from Mexico: No, not a problem for her or her family. Second response was from a Euro-descent woman who married a Mexican man: No, not a problem; her husband’s family loves it when they see stuff like this making it into the mainstream (they helped her paint her face this year). Third response, my stepmother, bless her heart, born and raised in WASPy WASP Connecticut from a line of WASPs back to the Mayflower: Oh, dear, yes, this might be a tad offensive.

I love my stepmom, I really do. She’s an amazing person. But she very often is so uptight about causing anyone offense that I think she really restricts her enjoyment of life over it. And not because she’s offended, but because she imagines someone else may be offended. She checks her privilege so often she’s running her balance into the negative.

82

He caught a lot more shit for when and how he made it (during the cultural boycott of Apartheid) than the fact that it used South African music styles

To this day, I’ve only ever heard the snatches of that album that I get before I can change the channel.

83

Because people here who have opinions have the force and power to enforce them? If someone here feels it is stupid they are telling other people how to feel?

I’m not understanding the connection between someone thinking something is foolish, and actually telling an individual how they MUST feel.

And of course there are plenty of people out in the world offended by anything and everything, if I say someone is foolish to be offended by an openly gay couple am I telling them how to feel? I’m not entitled to an opinion?

84

Not at all.

At my office, there are a lot of Hispanics. My best guess is that, if I showed up in Frito Bandito garb, 25% of them would laugh… 50% wouldn’t give a damn… and 25% would be offended.

I suppose I COULD say, “75% of them aren’t offended, so screw the ones who are, if they can’t take a joke.” But is it really such a fantastic joke that it’s worth offending even a few co-workers? I can’t see it.

85

Keep this in mind, next time you hear

86

ah! you sort of prove my point for me. I hate those sappy cover versions with a passion, in some cases they stomp all over some of my own very deeply revered cultural icons. I (and my ears) are offended by them.

My reaction to them?..a roll of the eyes, a “hurrumph” behind a rustling newspaper and a (hopefully obvious) tongue-in-cheek pit thread. It niggles me, it doesn’t send me into an apoplectic rage. By no means should the fact of my offense be seen as reason to ban something.

In all seriousness, given dictatorial powers I wouldn’t stop people recording them, just as I wouldn’t stop people picking and choosing cultural artefacts to play about with. You may look like a dick but no-one should try and stop you doing it.

87

The Nazi’s appropriated an innocent Buddhist symbol, inscribed on monuments that are centuries old, and made into something so vile, even this many years later no one can use the original Buddhist symbol without being subjected to controversy and hate.

Now that’s cultural appropriation that seems horribly misguided. Sarongs? Saris? Not so much!

88

Good points, but how do you proceed when there isn’t a formal cultural body around to adjudicate matters, sign contracts, or receive payments?

With the Lakota, one can make an argument that the official Tribal body constitutes the official representative of the culture and is competent to authoritatively rule on acceptability of practices and associated costs and terms for outsiders using them.

But what happens if I want to use some of the culture of Appalachian Hillbillies? Who do I talk to? The Appalachian Regional Commission?, The State of West Virginia Department of Education? A bunch of guys I found at an Eastern Kentucky farmers’ market chewing tobacco, cleaning their guns, and telling jokes about “them funny city folk”? If I ask them to constitute my Hillbilly Cultural Practices and Sensitivity Adjudication Council, are the council’s rulings binding on the McPherson clan over yonder mountain who never agree with the guys who hang out down here? What happens if the ancestry of one of my panelists turns out to be 7/8 hillbilly and 1/8 WW2-era French war bride? If he starts calling me an empty-headed animal food trough wiper and farts in my general direction, can I kick him off the panel for being of impure blood and/or impure culture? Who am I to judge? Maybe I need to convene a Hillbilly Cultural Practices and Sensitivity Adjudication Council and ask whether that would be acceptable. Oh, wait…

And who gets paid, anyway? If a Buddhist wants to appropriate parts of Christianity as part of a movie he is filming, who does he make his cultural rent payment check payable to? The Roman Catholic Church? The Patriarchate of the Orthodox Church at Constantinople? The Evangelical Church of Germany? The South African Church of Christ? Otto’s Old Time Free Will Pentecostal Snake-Handling Tabernacle of the Last Days of Saints United in Christ Jesus for Eternal Life and the Salvation of Many Through His Blood For All Times and Nations in White Robes Before the Throne of the Living God YHWH and his Angels Ascending, Full Gospel, Reformation of 1834? After all, the ‘Ottoheads’ have consistently claimed since 1847 to be the true followers of Jesus’s teachings and the only real Christians. Who are you to tell them that they believe a lie and are not entitled to anything? Maybe we should ask a representative body of Christians. Oh, wait…

89

You talk to people. Any of the ones you mentioned work for me. We’re talking about culture here, not copyright or trademark (obviously, if something has copyright or trademark, you talk to the owner of that copyright or trademark.) Culture is made by people, not commissions. I have not talked to any Lakota Tribal Council, and I didn’t need to. The handful of Lakota people I’ve talked to were pretty unanimous, and presented a compelling enough argument that I don’t need an authority to consult when I’ve talked to the people.

Will they all agree? Nope. Will you get through life offending no one, ever? Nope. But if you look to reality, for a moment, and not Internet Outrage Land, you don’t need total consensus. You need information from people within the culture and a mindful intent to not purposefully piss people off, and a thick enough skin to shrug it off when someone is pissed off anyway. And, on the flip side, people need to be mindful and generous and realize that a 10 year old wearing a bindi isn’t trying to piss you off, she thinks sparkly stickers on her forehead are pretty.

90

Hindus and Buddhists still use the swastika all the time. Visit any temple. Anyway, the Nazis actually appropriated the swastika from the Trojans. And it had already been appropriated to death before the Nazis anyway.*

*The appropriation of a peace symbol for the emblem of a military unit isn’t as awesomely ironic as you might think because the 45th took it from Native American art, where it represents something else.

91

I actually got a tour of a local Buddhist temple not to long ago. One of the “points” that they intentionally brought up was telling us that the swastika, as it was used in the temple, was not a Nazi symbol and had nothing to do with Germany. Most people here already know that, but hey, they feel like they have to warn people just to make sure they are not misunderstood.

92

Yeah, I’ve seen it widely used in Asia, too. Not so much in the west. Because any use in the west would most assuredly create controversy, especially outside of a temple. Like just putting it on your bumper or t shirt would bring out haters who would not give a shit that you’re a Buddhist or what it’s history is/was.

Denying that reality seems silly to me.

93

Hindus and Buddhists don’t put it on T-shirts or bumper stickers in Asia or anywhere else.

94

I think I actually have seen it on a decal on the back of a taxicab. It certainly isn’t something you see often though, and its importance to Hindus and Buddhists is greatly overstated.

95

On reflection, I vaguely recall seeing it on a truck in India too.

96

Missouri Synod or Wisconsin Synod?

97

How do you “share” your profits with a cultural group that clearly exists, but only in a somewhat amorphous state whose exact boundaries are not well defined?

One of my ancestors was a minor government official in a fishing village on the NJ coast, a real Jersey Shore “local”. MTV has not offered me one red cent for the abomination that was Snooki. Not one cent! Our people were relentlessly pushed to and fro from forces of The Establishment ™’s economic engines and were slowly enticed away by promises of jobs in Philadelphia and other inland areas. Our precious homeland was turned into a tourist trap of ferris wheels and cheap cotton candy. Outrage! Who will stand up for my people? Where do I collect my reparations check? Do we need to start up the Jersey Shore Liberation Organization (JSLO) and petition the UN to be recognized as the “Sole Representative of the Traditional Late 19th Century to Mid-20th Century Rural and Small Town People of the Jersey Shore”?

And no, I won’t call it “down the shore”. We’re not from “up there!”.

Or, on other notes, what if Disney decides to make a movie about Pennsylvania Dutch people and decides to make good on UNESCO’s guidelines on intangible cultural heritage and property this time? Where do I pick up my check? Great-grandma would have wanted me to get at least $500,000, can I count on that? Will we all get the same amount or will it be apportioned based on percentage of blood, degree of attachment to down home PA Dutch culture as assessed by a psychiatrist, an exam on correct barnstar colors, and/or a German language speaking test and “hardcore” Dutchmen will get a big payout and California surfers who can vaguely point at an ancestor on a genealogy that Aunt Suzie drew up in 1950 for her Cultural Dynamics class will get 50 cents?

98

I’m having trouble understanding what you’re trying to say here.

A language or a lexicon cannot be a trademark. A trademark is a word or symbol or other sign that acts as an indicator of the origin of goods or services.

I wonder if you’re referring to copyright protection. Even then, a language or lexicon as a whole cannot be protected in this way. Copyright law protects creative and original expressions.

99

I’ve always wondered if (not sure what to call them- native, indigenous?) descendants of pre- Captain Cook Hawaiians resent white European- Americans appropriating the use of the word “Aloha”.

100

I’m pretty sure a language cannot be trademarked or copyrighted. So generally, you can say whatever you want in Klingon or Sindarin. You probably can’t just copy Paramount’s official Klingon language materials any more than you can copy B. Hernandez’s (1995) Teach Yourself Spanish in Six Months, but a “clean room” approach where you interview Klingon speakers who did learn from Paramount’s materials and use your research interview data to derive a grammar specification and vocabulary list might work. This applies to computer languages too, so nobody actually owns the syntax or semantics of Java or Visual Basic. One can own the copyright to a compiler or to a specific reference manual. So you can’t just copy Microsoft’s Visual Basic compiler and sell copies, but you could probably write your own and sell it. Why anyone would want to do that, though, is beyond the scope of the question.