What constitutes legal proof that one is gay?

Due to several other threads, and recent news, I’ve been wondering: if you’re in the military, or you’ve been drafted, can you automatically get out by claiming homosexuality? What standards are there?

And not just for the military. Suppose you’re a man accused of rape by a woman. Your defense is that you’re gay. But the accuser is so sure that the prosecution doesn’t believe you. What can you do/show to prove your case?

Obviously, the images of live demonstratory sex in a general’s office or courtroom is funny, but obviously unworkable. Do I just assume it’s up to the discretion of the commanding officer/judge or how well you sell to the jury?

To really prosecute most rape cases, you’d need more than just the woman saying “He’s the one” - DNA, some other evidence to connect you to the scene, woman showing signs of forcible sexual contact, witnesses who saw you talking to her at a bar, etc. In other words, proof that the two of you were together at a reasonably close time to the act, and some kind of proof that she was attacked. Considering that rape is often considered to be a crime of exerting power over a victim, rather than a sexual act (compare it to prison rapes, which are more of a power thing), I don’t think that simply claiming “I’m gay” would automatically exclude you from consideration.

Seriously, you’d do much better to let your defense lawyer just show that your DNA didn’t turn up on/in her - no sperm, no skin cells under the fingernails, no hairs in her bed/clothing, and so on.

IANAL, but I would guess that in a court case of some kind, if you wanted to use being gay as some kind of defense, they might ask for proof like testimony from family or friends about how you really are gay.

I believe the “clang clang clang” test is accepted by most courts.

“Went the trolley”

No, wait, I’m straight! Really!

I’d like to add to the OP if I may.

In companies that extend insurance coverage to “domestic partners”, how does one prove that you are actually in a relationship as opposed to roommates? I would think insurance companies would be very leery of being taken advantage of in this way.

I’ve always wondered the same thing. What if two same-sex friends wanted to beat the system and pretend they were a homosexual married couple, for whatever benefits that may entail? I mean go through an actual wedding and everything.

Re: the military, it usually takes proof of one or more instances of consensual homosexual sex acts before grounds exist for discharge. A declaration of homosexual orientation will also do it. Whatever the legal basis for the discharge, it must be proved before a military court. Enforcement ranges from zealous to lackadaisical.

Standford Law School has an excellent site on the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy, as I discovered during a recent DG thread: http://dont.stanford.edu/

Interesting question. As it was explained to me, one obstacle to enacting Federal anti-discrimination legislation to protect gays is that the “protected class” (those who may appeal to the law for redress) so created is difficult to define in a concrete way – more so than African-Americans, Veterans, women, and so on. However, if the legal system does accept that homosexuality can be definitively “proved”, then the objection has no merit.

I agree with Ferret Herder: I doubt that “proof” of homosexuality would be an adequate defense to the accusation of rape, any more than “proof” of heterosexuality would help a man accused of pedophilic contact with young boys. Neither crime/act has much to do with sexual attraction or preference.

In fact, about 3-4 years ago, a case dealing with male-male sexual harassment reached the U.S. Supreme Court. The plaintiff, a presumably straight worker on an oil rig, claimed that he was subjected to sexual harassment by his presumably straight male co-workers. The behavior ascribed to the defendants would clearly have been considered “sexual harassment” if directed towards a woman; but the defense claimed that in this case the behavior was not sexual harassment because a heterosexual man is incapable of such behavior towards another man. The case was interesting to me because it questioned the underlying assumptions about sexuality in the law itself, and raised the issue of “proving” one’s sexuality – which the defendant was not required to do this.

IIRC, in the end the court decided that this did, in fact, constitute sexual harassment, because the acts were clearly sexual and a “reasonable person” would find them sexually offensive or objectionable. However, no decision or comment was made about how one proves sexual identity/orientation in the courtroom, probably because in this case – as in a case of rape – sexual self-identity is not actually relevant.

As for the military: yes, I do believe that a person is discharged immediately if s/he positively self-identifies as a homosexual, or is observed to engage in homosexual activity. There have been several cases like this since the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy went into effect. But military law is distinct from civilian law.

As for domestic partnerships and employment/insurance benefits: each company (or state, or city) sets its own standards for assessing a domestic partnership. I think my company requires proof of a minimum live-in relationship of one year between same-sex partners, without regard to committment ceremonies and the like.

I suppose there isn’t anything which would prevent two straight men from pretending a domestic partnership to reap the benefits, just as an immigrant can establish a legal marriage with an American citizen to obtain a “green card”. But if the insurance company (or INS) decides to investigate, the couple had better make it look good! However, I doubt you would find too many straight men who would be willing to pretend they are homosexual, even to beat the system.

I find this fascinating. I’m not challenging you, but do you have a cite or a name or anything so that we might read more?

Note: There’s nothing that would prevent roommates of the opposite sex from pretending to be a common-law couple either.

(I’m a queer female and shared a house with a straight male for three years – we NEVER suggested we were anything more than housemates, but I’d still get mail addressed to “Mrs. Roommate”. If we’d ever wanted to pretend to be a common law couple, it would have been easy to do.)

Oncale v. Sundowner Offshore Services, Inc., 523 U.S. 75 (1998)

If you think it’s fascinating now, wait’ll you see who wrote the opinion! :wink:

–Cliffy

Domestic partnership benefits don’t have to be for romantic relationships necessarily. I have a friend who has insurance for his sister that lives with him but doesn’t work.

There is no such thing, and no need for, proof that a person is gay. One can, if the situation requires it, prove that homosexual activity has taken place. One can, if the situation requires it, demonstrate or affirm that one openly identifies oneself as gay.

The military does not have to prove that you are gay, just that you have performed certain acts (sex or speech). If they don’t want you to go for some reason, I imagine that the commsnding officer has sufficient latitude to keep you for the duration of your enlistment (or as long as his staff keeps losing your paperwork :p). The rape case is silly; gay men can rape women, so that’s no issue at all.

Re: domestic partner benefits, I have worked in the benefits departments for two large firms, one of which was in benefits consulting.

As Eats_Crayons noted, the domestic partner can be same- or opposite- sex, and the relationship can be hetero- or homo-sexual. However, the partnership has to be “similar to that of a married couple.” In fact, for one company I worked for, the employee and the dependent had to sign the following declarations:

dorkusmalorkusmafia, there are also provisions for covering an adult dependent or famliy member, but these do not fall under the category of Domestic Partner.

I think Afro-American is nearly as hard to define as gayness. Suppose you decide that 1/16 (or whatever standard you decide) defines being Afro-American, then go prove it one way or another. You are reaching back to great-grandparents in that case and who knows how “pure” they were. Even if it is defined as 50% (which it isn’t), nearly all American blacks are less than 100% and so the union of such a black and a white would fail the test. And, we are all from Africa if you go back far enough. And in my case, that is likely only about 80 generations although they probably weren’t black. Essentially, we let Afro-American be self-defined.

I would have done it in the military, honestly. I was serving at the time Clinton et al tried to allow homosexuals into the military, leading up to the “don’t ask don’t tell” policy. I’ll say in my experience there are good reasons for the policy, but had things gone the way the White House et al wanted, I would have taken advantage of it to move out of the barracks. Married couples, after all, earn BAQ and BAS (house and food money), which gives you a chance to purchase a house. Granted a convenient marriage would have worked, but then there’s not really such a thing as convenient divorce. Faking a gay relationship with no further obligations would have been ideal. When you’re making $1800 per month (less taxes), and extra $800 (tax free) comes in really, really handy. Of course, you could argue that the military practices two types of discrimination: gay-based and matrimony-based (I would have stayed in, despite the money, were it not for the marriage-based discrimination).

For information on the lunacy that is “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, Don’t Pursue,” check out the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network. Recently there have been a spate of cases where commanding officers are refusing to discharge gay service personnel, putting SLDN in the bizarre position of demanding that the military properly enforce a law which it has opposed since before it was passed.

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that part. To be eligible for company benefits, it’s not as simple as just showing up as a couple at the company picnic, you actually have to sign an affidavit that declares that you are in a “conjugal-type” relationship.

Lying would be a Very Bad Thing that could cause no end of legal hassles further down the road when one of you finally says “you’ve left your socks on the coffee table one time too many!” and moves out.

My domestic partner is on my medical insurance. It costs more than if we were married due to pretax vs posttax issues. If she gets hit by a truck, I don’t get her pension. If you’re going to fake, fake a straight marriage. It’s much more lucrative.

I’m not sure there really could be legal proof that you’re gay, except for your saying so. People have to take your word for it.

As others have said about rape, sexual orientation I’m sure isn’t relevent. I’m curious now though, is there legal relevance as to type of rape? Anal vs. vaginal?

Claiming you’re gay to get out of the military is usually pretty easy. Unless it’s wartime. Then they’ll likely keep you until after the war, then discharge you thereby nixing your veteran’s benefits. They’ve been sued for this & lost tho, so hopefully we won’t be seeing as much of that anymore.

You know, being gay in the military might be grounds for dismissal, but gay sex actually doesn’t have to be. I’ve seen several cases where two guys got caught in the act & all they had to do was say, “sorry, it was a one-time thing.” You know, boys will be boys kinda thing. They get some punishment and that’s about it. That was before “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.” Now if two guys get drunk & fool around THEY MUST BE GAY AND THROWN OUT. Sorta silly. As an old girlfriend of mine was fond of saying, “what’s wrong with a little sex between friends?”

Anyway, when I was in the Army stationed in Germany, the barracks were often pretty substandard & overcrowded. The command knew this, couldn’t do anything about it so we were tacitly encouraged to pair up with someone (of the opposite sex of course), get married & move off base. No questions would be asked no matter how fake the marriage seemed. Gay men & lesbians did it all the time, too.