In the highly unlikely event that the draft was reinstated would gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transgender, etc be allowed to serve? Would the right-wing seriously attempt to argue that gays should be exempt? How would MEPS even be able to verify sexual orientation since large numbers of conscripts would likely claim to be gay to avoid service?
I don’t think there’s any practical way to have a draft yet still exclude LGBTs from service? In the 60s homosexuality was considered a mental illness and acting on it a crime in nearly every state. The stigma was huge, it most certainly kept alot of men from feigning homosexuality for fear of the potential consequences. Fast forward to the 21st century. Even though there’s still alot of discrimination being gay is easier now than at anytime on our nation’s history. I think alot more straight men would be willing to say they’re gay (and possiblely do other stuff) if it meant they wouldn’t be forced to serve in the military.
If, for some reason, the US needed to reinstate the draft, wouldn’t they just follow the “don’t ask, don’t tell” approach? Do they really need to know your sexual preferences?
If the OP is asking whther or not gay people will be allowed to serve openly, I would have to answer probably not. If there were a draft though, the likelihood of being purged for homosexuality would definitely decrease.
There are many gay people that have served in the military, with varying degrees of openness about their sexuality. A really good book on the subject is “Conduct Unbecoming” by Randy Shilts.
There’s no systematic attempt to discover the sexuality of anybody. The only people that care are random busybodies who make it their business to know and the people who can use their “homosexuality” to get out of their commitments. I put that in quotes because DADT gives people a ready-made excuse from their duties if they have the ability to stick it out through the process. A lot of people recant upon questioning.
I recall hearing that this did actually happen and that those who claimed to be gay were shown different pictures or videos or something I guess while naked to see if they would become aroused supposedly proving they were indeed gay. I think it was during the Vietnam War, though I admit it sounds made up and may not be true.
They don’t ask EVER, at the recruiting office, MEPS, etc. I am not saying there is not someone out there who messes up and says or asks the wrong thing, but they are NOT allowed. Actually I don’t think recruiters even want to know, they just want to meet their quota.
However, once on active-duty, there is a way to ATTEMPT to find out. “Do you have a girlfriend? Do you plan on having a girlfriend? Have you ever had a girlfriend?”
My point is that unlike now where gays are volunteering for service and would want to keep their orientation secret the opposite would be true in a draft. Men (gay or straight) who didn’t want to serve would tell the draft board, MEPS, and anyone else who’ll listen that they like other men. They would be actively trying to get out of military service. If the military kept saying “anyone who reveals their orientation will be discharged” than what stops everyone who wants to dodge the draft from saying the same thing?
Nothing. Pride? (for those who are homophobic or would be ashamed to say they were gay).
It happened in Iraq and Afghanistan for servicemembers already in. Those who were afraid or possibly against the war would all of the sudden state they were homosexual. Perhaps for some of them it was true, but I doubt it. There were guys I knew for a fact I saw out in town hooking up with members of the opposite sex and 100% believe were not gay, would say that they were to avoid the remainder of their contract.
Funny Story - when I was a recruiter for the Marines, I would have to call the high school senior list. I called one house and the mother answered the phone.
“Hello, Ma’am, this is Staff Sergeant S from the Marine Corps calling for _____. Is he there?”
“No, my son is not interested.”
“That’s fine ma’am, the Marine Corps is definitely not for everybody. But do you know when he will be home so I can talk to him for a few minutes?”
“Listen, my son is gay, stop calling.” (Laughter in the background).
Now, I knew who the kid was and he was not gay (I believed). He was first string on the high school football team and a pretty popular kid.
“Okay, I did not know your son was a homosexual. Perhaps some day the military will change it’s policy on homosexuals in the service. In the meantime I will make sure I tell everyone I see not to give him any information on the military, or try to recruit him because he is gay. I will tell all of my future Marines, and some of them are his friends not to contact him or give him my card, as he is unable to serve due to his status as an ‘admitted’ homosexual.”
“NO, NO, NO, I was just kidding, he is right here. Hold on.”
He never joined, though.
Moral of the story: Don’t mess with a Marine with a quota.
It’s been a while since I reviewed the numbers but IIRC this is the first prolonged military action since there’s been any sort of formalized policy on homosexuality and service in which the number of gay discharges hasn’t gone down over the course of the action. I remember reading of a number of high-profile “stop-loss” cases during Gulf War I of discharges being halted and the gay servicemember deployed, only to be discharged after serving. Which always struck me as the clearest possible evidence that the policy has always been complete bullshit. The military hung its anti-gay hat on the peg of “unit cohesion,” yet unit cohesion was apparently insufficient reason for keeping gays out of combat.
It’s more of a would they have to serve if drafted. I feel if Bush is desperate enough to have to draft unwilling particapants, that the military will be taking gays this time. I think the it’s not fair that I have to serve and gays don’t arguement would win out in the next draft.
Well, clearly that wouldn’t work in a draft. Though some jusisdictions allow undercover cops to sleep with prostitutes to get evidence, perhaps the military could do something similiar :rolleyes: . Gee, I wonder conservatives would react to that particular use of public money .
Never said it would, I was trying to say it would be very hard to prove someone was gay. So, I actually agree with you, and perhaps you agree with me. Being gay is very hard to prove, because the stereotypes mean nothing. Anyone could say they are gay and get away with it, just as someone could say they were straight (if they were gay) and nobody would know the difference.
I’m assuming that by his name, Airman Doors is or has served in the air Force. I’ve been in the Army for 16 years now…and Door is correct. No one really goes out of their way to “weed” out any gays that may be in. Theres no “Gay police” looking for homosexuals and most people don’t actually care as long as you do your job and keep your private life private. At least thats been my experience.
Der Trihs, unless you have any personal experience in the military, you’re speaking out of your ass. (I have no idea if you do or not, I’m just sayin’)
.