What currently closed businesses or places could be allowed to reopen (with restrictions)?

The Quarantine Zone
21

Dinsdale, have you read Nate Silver’s Signal and the Noise? It is a great book. Anyway, one of the central ideas in the book is that uncertainty and risk are very different things. If this situation were merely risky, we could manage risk. We are good at managing risk. But uncertainty means that we don’t know what this risk is. That is exponentially more dangerous, because people are bad at handling uncertainty.

Again, I think we should be having conversations about what risks are known, and if they can be mitigated. But much is still uncertain.

22

OP, here’s my problem. Those of us in the hard hit states have closed everything we can and are going through stir-crazy hell while we all know people who have gotten sick and died. Our economies are at a standstill, and, I’ve got news for you, that’s no good for the rest of the country because NY, NJ, California, etc., all contribute more to poor states like Missouri than we get back.

So, we ask Mitch McConnell for help, in order to keep our people at home and stop people from dying. Mitch says, get bent, drop dead, no blue state bailout. Meanwhile, his state of Kentucky gets an annual bailout from us to the tune of $33k/year/person, when there’s not a giant pandemic going on. NY, NJ, California would all be better off if we didn’t bail out Kentucky or Missouri. We live in high state tax states, so we can take care of our own, while we also pay more in federal taxes so we can take care of Kentuckians and Missourians who refuse to be responsible and pay enough in taxes to take care of their own people.

Now, NY, NJ, etc., are really hurting and McConnell tells us to fuck off.

At the same time, you, in a net mooching state, are asking us in the closed down states what businesses can reopen. So, you’re opening tattoo parlors, which is the least essential service I can think of, and people will go and the virus will spread and someone will have to travel to NY or NJ while not showing symptoms, and it will rip through the subway system again and we’re shut down again this fall. All because someone wanted to get that fucking skull tattoo on their elbow or some shit.

How about this? The mooching states can’t reopen anything non-essential until the paying states get to reopen? Because, having some states opening while some states are closed is like having a pissing section in a pool – that piss will move out of that section and the whole pool will have urine in it.

23

Yes, but that is true of every now closed business. If we are reopening piecemeal (which I haven’t seen any state suggest just ripping off the bandaid) then would you not agree that if we rank businesses from top to bottom of importance for reopening that tattoo parlors would be at the very bottom of that list?

24

Thanks for saying this more reasonably and calmly than I did!

25

I agree with the latter sentiment. There’s a reasonable priority of “important” if not necessarily technically “essential” businesses. Hardware and appliance repair (or appliance sales) come to mind. It would be disastrous for me during a lockdown if something went wrong with the fridge or the stove (indeed it was only last year that I had to drive a fair distance to pick up a specialized oven element very specific to my stove, or else I would have no oven). Or how about essential hardware like a critical piece of plumbing? Fortunately we’re heading into “transition season” here where neither furnace nor A/C will be required for a while, but those are other potential examples that are more important than, say, getting a tattoo of a lawnmower on the bald spot on top of your bald head (no, I’m not making this up).

I am definitely not a fan of accelerating openings beyond what is safe, reasonable, and necessary, but if large grocery stores can continue to operate with appropriate protective measures, than so can many retailers and service providers who we depend on for important products and services.

26

Hardware and appliance stores and skilled tradespeople are all considered “essential” in Illinois, anyway. I was very relieved because our bathroom sink had been acting up, and we only have one bathroom. Fortunately a jug of Drano seems to have fixed the problem for the moment, anyway.

27

I agree with you but I can also tell you that a large percentage of my essential co-workers plan on spending their stimulus rebate and overtime pay on tattoos.

28

Ok, this is an viewpoint I havent heard and a darn good one. Missouri should hear it.

29

Were they rational, I would expect proprietors of early-open non-essential businesses to require masks and gloves on customers and clients to protect the staff and the proprietors’ own funky selves. Otherwise it’s “C’mon in and infect us all so we can sicken and shut down forever!” Not the brightest move. Who’s going that way?

30

Where do you draw the line? It’s a total slippery slope. Beaches sure as long as social distancing is actually practiced. Ditto hiking trailheads. Golfing probably is fine if you never enter a clubhouse and socially distance. It pained me when skiing got shut down, but then again lift lines are crowded. Reopen malls and limit number of people inside the store and require all to have masks? Business offices and parks to reopen if everyone wears a mask? Are cubicles ok or should everyone have an office?

It still goes back to

  1. adequate testing so the problem is defined
  2. test for antibodies
  3. prove that those with antibodies and “immune” for a certain period of time
  4. lock down the vulnerable and figure out services to support them
  5. Does community wide mask wearing in an office setting eliminate or reduce spread
  6. Can schools reopen with pupils wearing masks that stop the spread
  7. What level of hospital filled hospitals can we tolerate on a on-going basis? AKA the swedish model. In other words, we know this is deadly, but can we actually balance so that health care can handle the work load without getting overwhelmed and society lives with the infection/death rate as a trade off to reopen the economy.

@rittersport Preach it brother. Moscow Mitch sucks at the teat of the wealthy states, but in this hour of national need is doing sweet fuck all except trying to bailout corporations/wealthy and practice crony capitalism by “privatizing” USPS. I’m 2 miles from the original epicenter in Washington State, and now we are #15 on the infected list because Gov Jay Inslee got the corporate leaders of Amazon, Microsoft, Boeing, etc to mandatory work from home early, and shut down the state early. Then we get to watch Florida keep the beaches open for spring break dumbasses to spread and reinfect covid across the entire US.

UrbanRedneck, not sure you understand that the lock down has to be complete for at least 14 days to break the cycle. Some numbnut that just had to be at a church service in New orleans or a reopen the economy rally sans mask and is asymptomatic, can restart the whole cycle. Bitch about China all you want, but they locked down the entire country for 2 months. And that means at least in the larger cities, households were allowed one representative to leave 2x week to get food. None of the namby pamby “what about my rights to be able to spread a pandemic” whiny shit that masquerades as 2nd amendment embarrassment.

31

Thanks, CG and UR! And, UR, I apologize for the ranty tone of my post. I am really pissed at McConnell, but this is the wrong thread and forum for ranting about the politics. I’ve been locked down for 5 (or 6?) weeks, and it’s really starting to get to me.

32

Campgrounds. No tents. Trailers or drivable RVs only. Limit the number of people per site. For campgrounds where sites are close together only allow every site to be occupied. Campers are pretty good at social distancing.

33

And I think this will be the issue. As a strictly medical issue, we should lock down longer. You are getting cabin fever as am I. Financially, I am doing fine, but a hell of a lot of people are not. But even I am getting skittish. I would give anything to have a meal in a restaurant or sit at a bar and bullshit with some strangers for a couple of hours. Of course me doing that is nowhere near as important as people dying, but we are social animals and can only be “kept in cages” for so long.

Of course, after 5 or 6 weeks, we are responsible and doing the right thing. Many are defying these orders. What happens in 5 or 6 more weeks. We get worse and more people start defying them. At some point, even you and I will start defying them.

There is also the other human cost. Many people are falling into depressing and pickling their livers from drinking too much, or eating unhealthy and not getting enough exercise. People could also die of things because they cannot get their early screenings.

Short version, the medical necessity must take into account basic human actions and reactions. It’s not enough to say that we must stay inside until a vaccine can be developed, because we simply will not. It’s not a matter of persuasion; you will literally have people saying that they don’t care if they die, they need out.

So before we get to that point, we must start opening things up even if it is not the ideal medical thing to do.

34

Off topic a bit but this should be what your elected representatives bring up or people write in to media representatives in those states.

KCMO 71 is a very popular talk radio station here in Kansas City. This would be a station to call up and talk to people who will listen.

Again, honestly I’ve never heard this brought up. But maybe it should be a part of the national debate?

35

[Pennsylvania] I’d like to see plant nurseries opened up. We’re still close to frost advisory, but past the point where I can start anything from seed.

36

I’m rather surprised golf courses are closed. I mean, it’s a pretty easy place to stay six feet away from people. In may case, I’m usually eighty yards deep in a forest looking for my last shot.

37

They are open around here but with restrictions.

38

Around here the courses are open but with limited operations.

39

My California county’s emergency health decree lists as essential activities “Any form of cultivation of products for personal consumption or use, including farming… [and] activities or businesses associated with planting, growing, harvesting, [etc]…” and so the nearest plant nursery downhill is open for call-in orders and pickup. It looks like the Lowe’s Garden Center in the county seat is open also. We’ve likely seen our last snowfall and MrsRico is anxious to get on with planting and growing.

40

Golf courses, most outdoor construction, and garden centers that are missing out on their peak season need to be opened. All can be opened with safety in mind.

A famous French chef makes the reasonable argument that opening restaurants is safer than people shopping for their own groceries at crowded stores: