Incidentally, that wasn’t some random goon, it was Joaquin Salamanca, Hector’s grandson and last remaining relative. Gus taunts Hector by bringing Jesse with him to the nursing home.
With all the hate for Todd it is, perhaps, ironic he twice directly saves Jesse’s life.
After the shoot out in the desert where Hank is killed, Walter reminds the Nazis they were paid by him to kill Jesse and he wants them to deliver. The Nazis are more than happy to put a bullet in Jesse there and then. Todd steps in and suggests torturing Jesse first to see what he told the DEA. Which saves his life.
It is unclear who from the Nazis first decides to keep Jesse alive as a cook - probably Todd again but I couldn’t swear to it.
However after Jesse’s confession DVD is liberated from Hank’s house and it reveals Jesse ratted out Todd the Nazis once again decide to kill Jesse and once again Todd argues (pleads?) for his life to be spared so he can continue cooking (so that Todd has an excuse to keep in contact with Lydia.)
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Are you saying that sitting and watching someone choke to death, without attempting to help them, is the same level of evil as an old-fashioned armchair bigot, who never hurt anybody but their feelings or their sense of decency? No, it’s not Hitler, but it is almost the same level of evil as what he did to Brock. The only mitigating factor at all is the fact that she was blackmailing him, but even then, its not like he wasn’t smart enough to talk/manipulate her out of that. She was a complete moron, he was a mastermind at criminally manipulating people and events. We’re talking Lex Luthor levels here. He could have ended that blackmail nonsense, non-lethally, without breaking a sweat. But he chose to just let her die. Evil. Story-wise, this was a good way to show how quickly his morals were declining, because it’s evil. And as evil as what he did to Brock was, at least he was fairly sure Brock wouldn’t die, due to the amount of ricin he used.
Not ricin. It was lily of the valley. It just appears to be ricin, because… oh, it’s a long story.
The end of the story is Walt slipped the ricin to Lydia and made a gloating phone call to her so she knew what he had done.
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:rolleyes: Seriously? One of SDMB’s biggest weaknesses, despite being, by far, the most intelligently populated forums on the internet, is turning everything into politics. I give you credit though, you just stated an opinion. Most would’ve added an insult to whichever side they’re opposed to (usually of the two-party American persuasion). Anyway, I maintain this is nonsense and could only be used to predict only the most extreme followers of either party. You know, the moron who usually actually take into account their party’s opinion when forming their own. Oops, now I’m a hypocrite. Actually, this might be fun, I’ll use myself as an example.
My political affiliation: None/Independent. Probably 60-70% Democratic views, 40-30% Republican views, tempered with a small-l libertarian streak.
My view on the Walter/Jane death situation: Walter is scum for letting her die, but she did ask for it by blackmailing him. Jesse and Jane are both equally responsible for sliding back into addiction, but they don’t deserve death, they need help. But that doesn’t excuse anything they’ve done to other people, and they have to want the help themselves.
He doesn’t call her, he picks up Todd’s phone when Lydia calls it. Which is a minor point, that I’m mentioning just to have an excuse to link to a clip of Todd’s hilarious ringtone.
BTW, I’m still a bit pissed off that Walt told her. The earlier scene where she puts the ricin-laced stevia in her tea makes what happens perfectly clear, and it felt patronizing for the show to spell it out in such detail to the audience. Especially since this show usually assumes that the viewers are geniuses, rather than idots.
But I guess that Walt was thinking: “I’m going to make damned sure that no will be arguing over this, at least, on message boards after I’m dead.”
By the way, they weren’t really “Nazis”. Every prison has race-segregated gangs, and it’s common for members of the white gangs to get swastika prison tattoos. Doesn’t really make them “Nazis”.
Why on Earth would you assume the purpose of that scene is for exposition? It’s obviously so that Walt gets a chance to gloat about it before he dies. Has nothing to do with telling the viewers what happened.
Is anyone purely evil? I mean 100%, not 95%, in all their waking actions and thoughts. Maybe a psychopath/sociopath like Ted Bundy, Ed Gein, or some remorseless child rapers/killers/torturers. I don’t know. Even Hitler was not PURELY evil, because he thought he was doing good by his people. Let me clarify, I mean Hitler was not evil in the same way a comic-book supervillain is, or even Ted Bundy (killing for sadistic pleasure). Although Hitler definitely enabled a bunch of sadists to, legally and safely, do their thing. I have to agree with you, this makes for a much more interesting character, because of what you just said. You can identify some, at least to a point.
BTW, yes, I think genocide is evil. If someone reads this and feels outraged that I would suggest that Hitler was not purely, 100% evil, then either you have misunderstood me because you have poor reading comprehension, or you have misunderstood me because I explained myself poorly. Either way, yes, I know Hitler was evil, and he intentionally caused millions to suffer horribly both physically and mentally, and if there is a hell, Hitler deserves to be there. Any eternal hell I can imagine for him, is still not enough for what he deserves. Someone is still gonna take offense, I’m sure.
Do you have any children? I have to say, after that incident, I saw Todd as a malicious, horrible monster, and I cheered when he died. I don’t misunderstand you, I know you’re saying that,logically, you realize he’s scum, but emotionally you didn’t see it. And I’m saying that I find that shocking from anyone, and I can’t imagine a parent thinking that. BTW, PLEASE, don’t take this as an insult, I’m genuinely intrigued.
Yes. They are in the same category. Some people are more evil than others, but evil is evil. Killing a child, in cold blood, to protect yourself from the consequences of a crime you willingly committed, is stone-cold, sociopathic/psychopathic, and EVIL. If Todd is not evil, than no one is. I can’t believe I’m bothering to reply, this is just a ridiculous argument over a definition. I’m sure someone could even make a case that killing someone out of sadism is less evil than what Todd did, but what’s the point? It’s still crossed the line over into completely unjustified evil.
I think you meant “someone could even make a case that killing someone out of sadism is more evil”, and the point is motive. It’s not “unjustified” that Todd shot the kid - he obviously had justification, and that justification was to ensure that they weren’t caught for the major crime they were committing. Of course you can reject that as being adequate justification for murdering an innocent, but the justification in that case is self-preservation. Whereas if someone kills for the sake of thrills or sexual gratification, that’s a much more sinister motive in my estimation.
And no, I don’t have kids. Doesn’t matter though.
The kid in the desert, the only other deaths that compares (that I remember) is Andrea’s. Andrea was also a complete innocent, AND a single mother. Hank and his partner’s deaths are up there too, but on a lower level, since they voluntarily have dangerous jobs where something like this is always a possibility. But they were still innocents shot down doing a heroic job.
Not to justify Walt at all, but part of his motivation was also to “save” Jesse from Jane, since he was sure if he stayed with her and with all that money they would both be dead of ODs within six months. He also figured that with Jane out of the picture Jesse would go back to cooking with him. He didn’t bargain for the fact that Jesse actually did love Jane. Still evil, of course.
According to commentary on the DVDs, in earlier versions of the script Walt actually killed Jane outright by intentionally rolling her on her back, but it was decided it was too soon to make him that evil.
I thought the original scripts had Walt deliberately inject her with an overdose. Which is more certain and more ‘hands on’ as it were.
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Speaking of original script ideas, I found it strange the original idea was for Jesse to die at the end of season 1. Watching the show it seemed so natural it was all about the relationship between Walter and Jesse.
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That’s what the Breaking Bad Wiki says, but IIRC on the DVD commentary Vince Gilligan says Walt was just supposed to roll her over.
You know, usually I don’t get too enthusiastic when people bring up early scripts and changes to stories. Especially with things like killing off Jesse in the first season, which keeps being mentioned. Writing always involves going through ideas, good ones and bad ones, before you land on the final one. It’s a process. These things don’t fall from the sky as finished articles.
That said, in this case, I would absolutely love to get my hands on the trash bins containing discarded BB script drafts. Because, oh boy, there must be some crazy stuff in there. There are moments on the show where I get the feeling that the writers are saying: “Here’s what we could have done”. Like Skyler wading into the pool, maybe wanting to kill herself. Todd and the Nazis standing around baby Holly’s crib. Any number of guns pointed at any number of heads.
I’ve read some strange things:
There must have been some dark nights of the soul in that writers’ room.
From TVRAGE.COM but also elsewhere.
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