Well, given that Guelph is in Ontario, it would be obvious that Ghibbilene would be in Quebec. I can see it now: Ste.-Ghibbilene-aux-Fleuves, with the old brick church on the hillside, the café where one can buy habitant green-pea soup…
More seriously, people who hold that members of society should maintain a certain standard of personal behavior and those who are strongly in favor of less government involvement in the affairs of business (overlapping sets, of course) tend to band together as “conservatives”; those who seek a certain amount of social justice and assistance to those who need it, and look to government to be the agent of instituting these reforms, tend to band together as “liberals.” Each has a certain element of statism and a certain element of libertarianism built into its credo, which often results in internal conflict.
And of course some people see that no ideal is without its inherent negative impacts. (Regarding this, it’d be worth it to have Libertarian expound on the actual role of government in his Libertaria ideal, without anyone taking potshots at his thinking – from conversations we’ve had, I get the distinct impression that we are nearly all of us making false assumptions about what he is really saying.)
Party and “ideology” in the liberal/conservative sense are simply convenient labels to group together those whose thinking has shared aspects, not pigeonholes into which everyone’s thinking has to fit neatly.
I think my rant has been misunderstood, mainly due to my not being very good at explaining my point.
I know what “liberal” and “conservative” and “libertarian” are understood to mean, what I’m saying is that to use those terms as a self identification is just a fancy way of saying “Yeah… what he said.” The use of such terminology creates a false duality, causing people who in actuality agree on many issues to see each other as polar opposites. The coin doesn’t have two sides, it has as many sides as there are people.
The Guelphs and Ghibellines were the two contending political parties in 13th-century Florence. One was for the Pope, the other was for the Holy Roman Emperor. Trinopus’s point was that nobody can tell the difference between them any more.
FWIW I know what you’re saying grendel, and I agree. I wish there were no political parties. It might coerce a politician or two to prove he or she had a backbone every once in awhile.
Actually, grendel, I can see where you’re coming from, I think. I used to work with a fellow who freely admitted he was a right-wing, gun-toting, liberal-hating conservative. He and I liked to talk politics, and did so with the understanding that it was a friendly argument. I can’t tell you how many times he said, “If you think that, then you’re not a true liberal.” I’m not, as it happens, but I was amused at how narrowly he painted the terms.
