Now, I disagree with what the House Republicans are doing, both in their objectives and their tactics, with every fiber of my being. But I’m not sure it qualifies as extortion. Maybe a lawyer can weigh in, but my understanding is that in contexts like this one a necessary condition of extortion is that the extorting party use its leverage to extract something to which it has no legal claim, ie wrongful inducement. (Like if I use the threat of publishing compromising photographs to extract a payment.) In this instance, though, is there any basis for denying that the Republicans technically have the right to shut down the government? So, I’d say it’s better described as driving a hard bargain–one of the most dickishly hard bargains, for sure, in the whole history of bargains, hardness, and dicks–but not extortion per se.
In fact, I still don’t see any reason to describe it as anything other than a negotiation. House Republicans have the power to shut down the government, and obstructing the ACA is worth more to them than keeping the government running. That’s a retarded but allowable position. I’d say the answer to the OP is as simple as that. Does this mean that Obama is unreasonable for refusing to negotiate on those terms? I’d say not. From his perspective, agreeing to negotiate with an opposition that’s willing to shut down the government over a policy dispute sets an unacceptable precedent, which outweighs the temporary shittiness of the shutdown. I would agree with him in that, and I think the resilience of his approval ratings the past couple weeks suggests that a good number of Americans in general agree with him.
You guys keep trying to push this dishonesty thru and I will correct it every time. No, the bill would not remove the individual mandate. It would delay it by a year.
Hard to tell. A junior Senator with about a year in office talks louder than the Speaker of the House, then shuts up entirely. John McCain, Presidential candidate of the Party is history, we are reliably informed. Romney is forgotten but not gone, and GeeDubya…well, the less said the better, yes? Oh, and Rand Paul is their intellectual powerhouse.
Perhaps they could play follow the leader if they had such. Right now we got a lemming stampede. “Some random Republican out there” isn’t relevant? Well, OK, who is?
Yeah, I’ve been wondering all this time about “negotiation”:
What could the Democrats/Obama offer that the Republicans would accept?
What are the Republicans offering to the Democrats? If they don’t need to offer anything, why not? Does that change the nature of the discussion out of “negotiation”?
Assume the Democrats give the Republicans everything they want. What happens the next time the debt ceiling needs to be raised, and/or a budget needs to be approved? Will this happen all over again? If not, why not?
They seem like pretty easy questions; can someone point me to the post(s) where conservatives/Republicans directly answer them? This is a long thread, so I was hoping to get the Reader’s Digest version. Hell, if any conservative pundits online answer them, bring on the links!
Terr, magellan01, Bricker; I think these are valid questions, care to give your opinion? Shodan? Sam? Anybody? This thread is in GD, and while there is plenty of crap going back and forth I have sincere questions and concerns about this strategy that the house Republicans have adopted and where it will lead.
What could the Democrats/Obama offer that the Republicans would accept?
A: I believe the Senate passing that bill that House last passed, that delayed the individual mandate by a year and removed subsidies from Congressmen and their staff would definitely do. In fact, it would do it by definition - once the Senate passes it and Obama signs it, it’s the law.
What are the Republicans offering to the Democrats? If they don’t need to offer anything, why not? Does that change the nature of the discussion out of “negotiation”?
A: Republicans are offering the CR. The Democrats want that, right?
Assume the Democrats give the Republicans everything they want. What happens the next time the debt ceiling needs to be raised, and/or a budget needs to be approved? Will this happen all over again? If not, why not?
A: something similar may happen. Or not. About half of debt ceiling increases in the past had strings attached to them. So it’s not like it is unprecedented.
They may try. Of course, since Obamacare is such a resounding success by 2014 elections, Democrats will probably be in control of the House as well, so Republicans couldn’t even try.
Hell, if any conservative pundits online answer them, bring on the links!