What do you consider clearest evidence of ongoing US racism?

Isn’t it convenient that you fail to mention that dog whistle racism is the province of one of the maintstream parties and their supporter - happily you chose to ignore that and carried on regardless.

If this behaviour were to be exhibited by some tiny minority faction then you would have a point, and I would not have mentioned it, however we see the terms ‘those people’ ‘benefit queens’ ‘inner cities’’ “crime ridden districts” “shared anglo-saxon heritage” “Barack Hussein Obama” “Affordable homes being built in your neighbourhood”" “international banks”- anti semitic. We see these terms used in a context that makes it plain the speaker is referencing black people or some other grouping against whom racism is intended to apply.

That such usage is widespread and yet camouflaged shows the speakers understands the unacceptability of straight out racism, and the target audience understands the same message which offers a form of bonding between the two along with a feeling of success against the ‘opression’ of political correctness

If you have to pretend not to be a bank robber then that means that society is not pro bank robber.

As you say it shows that straight out racism is unacceptable. In a truly racist society it would be open and acceptable.

Dog whistles are the notion that you can read your opponents mind and know what he is thinking based on your worst motivated reasoning. As evidence it has as much credibility as tarot cards.

Lots of people pretend not to be adulterers. Doesn’t mean there’s not a hell of a lot of adultery going on. And a lot of people take it for granted that it’s entirely normal and of course most people (or at least most men) do it, they just deny it in public (and usually to their spouses.)

Which it was, up through the 60’s. And we seem to be getting back there.

And the way we get there is by a lot of people getting across by various equivalents of nod and wink that hey, although you have to be careful about saying it in public right at the moment it’s OK with them.

It definitely was in the 60s. Society has changed. How are we getting back there? By nodding and winking?

Have you read the news the last few years?

I think you missed my point: which is that it’s very common; and that it is in fact accepted by a lot of people, including many who won’t say so in public.

There is no racism in America. There is classism as there always has been.

Actually, that there is classism does not mean that there is no racism.

I wouldn’t say “there is no racism in America” but I agree it is less of a problem than the media portrays and that classism is often mistaken for racism.

If MLKJ could have time-traveled and seen 2020 I think he would have said something like, “WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU ALL COMPLAINING ABOUT?”

It’s not that racism is completely gone but rather that it is less of a problem than it ever has been in the past.

Classism that strangely correlates to the amount and type of melanin one has.

[homie the clown] [whack] “I don’t think so.” [HtC] :slightly_smiling_face:

For those who are telling me to keep my mouth shut, I can’t do that. I’m against segregation at lunch counters, and I’m not going to segregate my moral concerns. And we must know on some positions, cowardice asks the question, “Is it safe?” Expediency asks the question, “Is it politic?” Vanity asks the question, “Is it popular?” But conscience asks the question, “Is it right?” And there’re times when you must take a stand that is neither safe nor politic nor popular, but you must do it because it is right.

How about all forms of auto racing in the US as evidence of racism? I can recall 2? Same as the number of African Americans I can think of in the country music business

I find it interesting that black people are far more likely to be imprisoned, and for longer periods than white people for drug offences.

More interesting still is that way that drug dealing and distribution are portrayed - so look at the Oxycontin scandal and the Sackler family, along with how these drugs were wideley distributed.

The compamny itself has made a deal to plea guilty to criminal charges however none of the players face anything like the sanctions that a street dealer and especially a black street dealer would face.

Look at how Oxycontin was promoted and distributed - the company made decisions to encourage through payments (bribes) to medical practioners - these are all individuals who have the proffessional knowledge and obligations to understand the consequencies of their choices upon their patients.

The distribution and promotion of those drugs has never been protrayed in quite the hysterical terms of other hard drugs, and those who were hoooked are generally seen as victims rather than criminals.

Compare this to the way black organised groups and black addicts are portrayed and treated by the criminal justice system and it is clear that rich white drug manuufacturers, promoters and dealers along with their addicts are treated utterley differently.

It is possible that arguments will be made to suggest that the dynamic of Oxycontin addiction is different - but this is simply the result of the feedback loop of race portrayal of drug abuse - if black people or latinos are involved in the drug trade then its the devils work, but if white people are involved its just sad and the vicitms need to be helped and the distributors need to care for their charges better.

Now if you are a person of colour you are going to look at the way the Sackler family and everyone else on down the chain of drug promotion and distribution are dealt with by the US state and you are going to see that the war on drugs is simply a war on minority groups which involved putting disproportionate numbers of your peers into prison - whilst white folk get nothing of the sort - hard to imagine that the US drug policy is anything but racist - in fact since it is part of the law and order debate yhou would conclude that the political theatre is inherently racist since no politician can run for office without appearing to be ‘tough on crime’

It seems crime by white medical proffessionals and drug companies is treated very differently - and on the ground of race.

It is not surprising that different things are treated differently.
The crack epidemic happened at end of three decades of increasing crime, when crime was nearing an all time high. The opiod epidemic happened at the end of a two decade decline in crime. The crack epidemic happened in inner cities which are the most crime prone places in the country and the opiod epidemic is happening in rural areas where crime is low. The crack epidemic fueled huge amounts of murders and and even bigger amount of robberies. The opiod epidemic has caused alot of medical fraud. The crack epidemic came exclusively from people trying to get high. The opiod epidemic was initially thought to be fueled by people in pain after medical procedures getting addicted. The crack was provided for criminal drug dealers trying to get rich. The opiods were thought to be provided by medical doctors trying to help suffering people ease their pain.

There are many differences other than the race of the addicts.

A better comparison to the crack epidemic would be crystal meth. I think most of the meth heads I have heard about in the media have been white, but I don’t see tweekers being described as sympathetic victims, or meth dealers getting a break from the justice system.

Point is, its about how racism affect the way individuals are treated in respect to crime. I am not advocating that Crack dealers should not face the law - what I am saying is that Crack went largely through the Black community but even for white folk who were involved they tended to get lesser sentences for similar crimes.

We also tend to hold that dealers are causing harm to the community and we would never consider that the dealers ignorance as any sort of mitigating factor.

What we have are millions of white Americans who have been prescribed opiods by medical professionals who have the duty and the knowledge to understand exactly what harm is likely to result, that the companies manufacturing those opioid knew about those risks and made a cost benefit analysis on their own margins and not on patient benefits. Add to this that one of the families who own one of the major manufacturers have been hauled in by law enforcement to the degree that a huge $2Bn settlement has been reached - that in itself certainly suggests a level of cycnical knowledge and acceptance of unacceptable behaviour to the extent that that company faces both criminal and civil proceedings.

And yet despite such huge evidence of bribery and corruption of medical practitioners we do not see any prospect whatsoever of any of these drug manufacturers and drug pushers facing prison time - why? well look at it like this, if those drug manufacturers had been black what do you think would have happened? If those medical practitioners had been black and pushing and promoting and over-prescribiing opiods don’t you think they would have faced criminal prosecution.

If there is going to be a war on drugs it seems the ones circulated by large white corporations and their owners have been given something of a free pass - evidence is that prisons are overwhelming full of black drug offenders.

If the owners of an opiod manufacturer had been black they would have been treated exactly the same or more leniently depending on their relationship with politicians.
Prisons are not overwhelmingly full of black drug dealers. All drug offenders only make up 20% of prisoners.

This isn’t true, this only applies to the possession, distribution of drugs and does not include crimes committed to fund drug habits such as robbery, shop lifting, burglary and other acquisitive crime. This adds a signficant amount to ‘drug related crime’

https://www.verywellmind.com/crime-and-alcohol-statistics-from-1998-62821

In any case an examination of the sheer numbers of black men in prison as a percentage shows that there is a problem.
One interpretaion could be that poorer people have worse representation in criminal trials, and given the income disparities in the US black and hispanics are more likely to be imprisoned and for longer periods - the argument goes that even if the criminal justice system were not racist - the effects of income will bias the way that courts produce outcomes.

However, given that black people are more likely to be profiled for arrest by instituonally racist law enforcement , it then follows that black people will be disproportionally represented in court where their lack of means implies they will face worse outcomes.

That Donald Trump wasn’t completely vaporized on Tuesday…

Relevant to that OP, I think:

Torey Edmonds has lived in the same house in an African-American neighborhood of the East End of Richmond, Va., for all of her 61 years. When she was a little girl, she says her neighborhood was a place of tidy homes with rose bushes and fruit trees, and residents had ready access to shops like beauty salons, movie theaters and several grocery stores.

But as she grew up, she says, the neighborhood went downhill. By the 1970s, stores had disappeared; those that did return were corner shops selling cheap alcohol but “no real food,” Edmonds says. Houses declined too, as homeowners – including her parents – were rejected for loans.

"If the bank’s not loaning, she says, “then things deteriorate.” [ . . . ]

In city after city across the U.S., from Milwaukee to Miami, researchers have found a disturbing pattern: People who live in neighborhoods that were once subjected to a discriminatory lending practice called redlining are today more likely to experience shorter life spans – sometimes, as much as 20 or 30 years shorter than other neighborhoods in the same city.
[ . . . ]
Along with other federal segregationist housing policies of the time, redlining helped turn white families into homeowners and moved them into the suburbs, while leaving out many families of color, particularly African-American families, many of whom later ended up pushed into urban housing projects, he says. [ . . . ]

A lack of investment meant houses fell into disrepair. That led to health hazards like mold and lead paint. Industrial sites were more likely to be located near redlined neighborhoods, which meant more exposure to pollution. [ . . . ]

“This is a way for white families to build intergenerational wealth, and black families are just cut off from those opportunities for generations,” says Nelson. Although redlining was outlawed by the 1968 Fair Housing Act, the damage was already done


Current deliberate racism isn’t required. The results of previous legal racism are still with us.

It wasn’t the “culture” of the residents that caused the problems; because the culture of the residents originally “was a place of tidy homes with rose bushes and fruit trees, and residents had ready access to shops like beauty salons, movie theaters and several grocery stores”.

And it’s hard for people to pull back out of that situation when their health’s been seriously damaged by it; and is still being damaged by the continuing situation.

ETA: None of which is to say that there isn’t still active ongoing racism.