What do you get arrested for if you get arrested for polygomy?

Ok, this is a complicated question and perhaps it should be in GD (in fact I wouldn’t mind if it did, really…Diogenes? anyone?)

But I do have a specific question. I was watching a show about polygomy and they mentioned several times men (in this case Mormons…or should I say “Mormons” who were arrested for polygomy. And that this was illegal ine Utah.

How so?

Obviously in some situations we are talking about breaking a legal contract. You marry someone. You lie and enter into the same contract with someone else. If I say you have exclusive rights to sell my widgets in the state of, say, Maryland and then I go behind your back and enter in to an official state reconized conract with someone else I have committed fraud.

But if everyone involved knows what’s going on…and if only one conract has been made official with the State (as opposed to the society they are part of)…where is the fraud? What is the crime?

I’m not saying given the culture of a lot of the polygomous community there aren’t good reasons to arrest them…child abuse and welfare fraud spring to mind.

But how do you arrest someone for polygomy?

Any more than, say, gay marriage in a state without gay marriage? it’s not a LEGAL document.

Oddly enough, you get arrested for bigamy

Well, that coding job really sucked.

Anyways, Utah is something of a special case because its admission to the Union was contingent upon outlawing polygamy as part of the state constitution. In addition the Utah legislature has decided to make it a crime as well (other states do too). They passed a law assigning criminal sanctions to the act. States that have outlawed same-sex marriage have done so as part of the civil code. There’s no criminal penalty associated with it. I suppose that a state could make it a criminal offense to marry or attempt to marry someone of the same sex, but so far not even the most hardcore of the hardcore legislative homo-haters has to my knowledge proposed it.

I am not sure I am following the question. You get arrested for bigamy or polygamy the same way you do for any felony. The police arrest you for breaking a law that is on the books and then the courts try you to determine if you broke a law that is on the books. The greater question of the philosophy behind those laws may be up for debate but, in the end, they are just statutes that someone breaks and then can get convicted of.

Multiple marriage contracts at the same time aren’t that hard to prove even if they are in different states. Many people engage in open marriages and things that may look like polygamy but they aren’t tried for it and this happens in every state. Many spouses cheat on their husbands or wives.

Are you asking when common-law type associations could result in a conviction?

There are a couple of differnt questions at war with each other in the OP, I think. On the one hand he’s asking about the mechanics of the crime, which is GQ. On the other, he’s asking about the public policy rationale behind polygamy statutes, which is GD.

Very interesting…but there’s the very question i’m wondering about.

That is…purport? How do you define purport? Legallly?

If I marry a woman (I can’t, yet, I’m a girly girl :slight_smile: ) and then take up with another woman, and call her my mistress or my paramour or the chick and shacking up with (and let’s say there are no adultery laws and my wife is ok with this) then I’m ok? But if I “purport” she is my secons wife I’m a felone? How does one leally define “purport”?( I guess if I claimed her as a recipient of my benefits that would do it but by the sound of it that’s just what they’re avoiding doing) How do you define "purport " if there is no legal conract? It just that this seems so amourphous.

Of course your second post makes it more clear. It’s always about history.

I guess I’m asking why should polygomy be a felony? Bigamy (as it’s usually defined) is illegally entering into a contract, and decieving a memeber of that contract you arre entering into. It’s fraud.

Polygomy (as it’s usually defined) does not involve deception. Does not involve violating a LEGAL contract. That’s my GQ question.

Although I do admit to being interested in the GD ramifcations. But I’m trying to stick to GQ here.

I once dated a gal who had discovered that she was married to a bigamist, she was the second spouse. She got an annulment based on his bigamy, he was present in the courtroom and walked out a free man. She claimed he wasn’t charged because his parents were wealthy and influential. This was in R.I. in the 60’s.

The answer is that it just is because laws define other laws and that is the way that the system was built. Marriage law is distinct from other contract law and it has been specifically singled out in all 50 states saying that bigamy is not allowed. Some of the reasons aren’t just moral or societal. Marriage brings all kinds of rights and responsibilities such as inheritance and the ability to make decisions for a spouse. Current laws aren’t equipped to handle that for more than two people. Everything from tax, inheritance, adoption, property ownership, and divorce laws would have to be changed. Allowing bigamy could get quite complicated in a legal sense.

ps…I would very much like to aquit my particularly appalling spelling (not that it’s ever been very good) to the fact the MY HOUSE BURNED DOWN. And I’m traumatized. And suffering from smoke inhalation. This may not be completely true but I’m fully prepared to use MY HOUSE BURNED DOWN for whatever stupid thing I do for the next 5 years.

Sorry for the highjack…please go back to the real topic.

Purport: to convey, imply, or profess outwardly; to have the appearance of being, intending, claiming, etc.

Black’s Law Dictionary, abridged sixth edition

As to whether there’s a history in Utah defining the word “purport” for general legal purposes or specifically the bigamy statute, I have no idea. I’ll leave that for someone who has better access to legal search engines than I do.

Civil marriage is a legal contract between the (in all states but MA) husband, wife and State. The State is a party to the marriage contract and the State must consent to allow the parties to enter into and exit the marriage. Bigamy is a fraud upon the State.

Historically, it was possible for an engaged person (or, often, an engaged person’s father) to recover damages for breach of promise if the engagement were broken and the marriage not entered into. In the case of a bigamous marriage, such a “heartbalm” action could be pursued on behalf of the jilted fiancee. Whether such an action was ever undertaken in the US on the basis of bigamy I don’t know. AFAIK most (all?) states have abolished “heartbalm” actions.

BTW, it’s polygamy.

No no no. I know what you mean (I think I do, what with this smoke inhlation and all…) but while I agree with you for the most part, what i’m saying is this OUTSIDE of the legal question of marriage. What we’re talking about is NOT a legal contract. It doesn’t involve inheritance, adoption, tax, etc. etc. This is not like the bigamist it sounds like A.R. Carane is talking about.

And as it doesn’t involve any of those serouois questions you bring up, that’s why I wonder how it could be a felony.

I think I understand the question, but I don’t understand the answers given. To clarify:

Case One:

John and Mary are legally wed. Ermentrude, an unrelated adult female, lives with them and has sexual relations with John. John has children with both women, all living in the household. All three adults consent to the arrangement without coercion.

Case Two:

Frank and Susan are legally wed. Rose, an unrelated adult female, lives elsewhere and has sexual relations with Frank. Frank has children with both women, one set living with Frank and Susan and the other with Rose. All three adults consent to the arrangement without coercion (though Susan complains about it a lot).

The legal question is, how is John’s case different from Frank’s? If John were arrested for bigamy, couldn’t he say Ermentrude is merely his mistress? Why isn’t Frank a bigamist if he has a long-term mistress and has children with her? In other words, where is the line between being a philandering scumbag (legal) and a bigamist (illegal)?

Hmmmmm…welll I guess I’m still wondering how to really leagally prove such a thing…implying? having the appeareance? What if you call your girlfriend your wife, maybe to sound respectable. What if your nieghbors just thought you were married? I know many people thoguht my So and I were married. I know sometimes we went along with it to make it easiier. I’m just saying still sounds a vague conviction, at least in some cases. I’m speaking here about what can be legallly proved.

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Absolultly! very much my point. But what about polygamy that is not asking for legal state recognition (in fact thhat seems te be just what those bastards have been doing…some religious idea about beihng a patriarch and then letting there state pay for they’re children and being willing to calll there wives “iliigimate mothers”!..ok now I’m definitly gettinging to GD, sorry. Let’s get back to the legal issue.) IF they are not asking for legal recognition than what (other than the abuse and the wealfare fraud) would actuallly could as their crime? That’st what I’m wondering.

Didn’t you read my number 10 post?

I have a pass.

Ok maybe 5 years is pushingi it but…
6 months maybe???

Yes!!!
Exactly. my point is how do you make a legal distiction (i’m not talking about a moral dististion, quite a different question.) when the polyamy (did i get it right tis time?) does not involve an actualy legal contract?

And Otto mad a good point but i still find “purport” to be legally vague.

Well, the mayor of New Paltz, NY, Jason West was arrested recently for 19 counts of “solemnizing a marriage without a license”, because he married gay couples. But I don’t think the couples themselves were arrested. Some have been threatened by the Federal Government (IRS) that they will be prosecuted if they try to file a ‘married’ tax return.

According to the Utah law, once you’ve married Alice, if you start living with Betty, you’re committing bigamy.

If we pretend that there aren’t any laws against adultery or cohabitating, then if you not only introduce Betty as “my wife” but file taxes with her, put her on your life insurance as your wife, list her on your work forms as “next of kin-- wife” or do anything where using the word “wife” would get her more advantages than another title like “girlfriend” then you’re “purporting”-- because you’re giving Alice (remember Alice? This is a song about Alice…) your REAL wife the shaft.

I think where you might be getting stuck here is that you see some real difference between bigamy and polygamy. Bigamy is like twins and polygamy is like multiple births-- twins, triplets, quads, and so on. (I don’t know why the legal name for what someone does by marrying repeatedly is bigamy, because it’s not very accurate when someone has more than two spouses.) Or maybe you’re thinking of polyamory, not polygamy? I can have a boyfriend and another boyfriend without breaking any laws about marriage-- even in Utah-- because I’m not married to either of them.

If I called either of my guys “my husband”, in a common-law state (which Oklahoma is, or was) then if we met the other criteria for common-law marriage, we would be married. However, most states that I know of have one very important criterion for common-law marriage: that you be eligible to marry each other. In other words, you both have to be of appropriate ages, opposite sexes, not too closely related, and not already married*. If someone believes they are common law married to another person, but that person turns out to be married to someone else before the common law marriage, then there is no common law marriage. On the other hand, if a common law marriage exists and then one of the people in it marries legally, they’re committing bigamy, because there isn’t a “common law divorce” (you have to get divorced the regular way).

Corr
*I don’t know what happens when people hold themselves out to be common law married beginning at a time when they’re not eligible to marry (underage, recently divorced, etc.). Well, I don’t know what happens other than “some attorney gets really rich.”

No, it’s accurate. “Polygamy” is an applicable descriptive non-legal term whether one has two spouses of twenty. If it’s more than one, it’s polygamy. From a legal standpoint though, in Utah, if one has three spouses, one is simply guilty of two counts of bigamy. There is no separate charge of “polygamy” nor is a separate charge needed.

That was two years ago already. My how time flies.

The charges were dismissed on a technicality, then reinstated on appeal, then dropped by the prosecutor. Would’ve been interesting to see how that all shook out if it had gone to trial. A number of the couples are pursuing civil remedies and their case is before the state’s highest court.

bigamy, n. A mistake in taste for which the wisdom of the future will adjudge a punishment called trigamy.

  • The Devil’s Dictionary. Ambrose Bierce.