What do you guys want?

The BBQ Pit
1

This is a rant directed to the suicide bombers and the guys who send them on their way. Not anybody on the board.

What do you want?

There was Kenya, then 9/11, then Bali, and now Turkey.

But why?? Just want to do you want???

You wont make any statements. You wont make any demands. You just cause more pain.

This makes no sense to me. You are obviously killing people for a reason. Just let us know so that we can try and do something about it!!!

All this planning you do to get these attacks right is useless if you dont come forward and say why you did it. Or atleast make some demands!!

I am going insane with people coming up with inane reasons.

“They dont like our way of life”. Thats as profound as saying day follows night. Duh!!! Of course they dont like something about us; thats why they are killing indiscriminatively.

“They dont like freedom”. What?? Just what do they care about what we do to ourselves?

“They want the US out of ME”. Are you sure? Is it really what they want? If they so, then maybe the US should get out. But we dont know for sure!!! Do you get what I am saying???

As long as we keep speculating, Bush, Blair the rest of the world incl. France and Turkey are going to keep doing what they feel like doing. Instead of what they should do; which is try and reach some agreement with you of stopping this madness!!!

What next? The Australian embassy in Syria?

Sheesh.

What a waste!!! Ignoring the suicide bombers themselves, all these civilians dying for no use.
Well… Hoping some of you will read this and get back to me as to why you are carrying out all these attacks.

2

Well, now that you ask what we want is… uh oh, what a give away! :smack:

On a more serious note, Osama Bin Laden has a wishlist of some sort, with some items obviously unreachable, like everybody turning into Islam; the guy is nuts.

3

I was just wondering this today, while listening to BBC News.

What goes through a suicide bomber’s mind? (Besides his sternum.) Are they so much different from the rest of us?

How does one begin to justify killing innocents even in a perverted religious way?

I know some very out there people, religious and not. I know regular people who are Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Pagans… they are all baffled by this. I even know a militant survivalist or two, and they don’t want to blow themselves up, obviously, but even the thought of mail bombing doesn’t tickle their bums.

What is it with bombers? Insane? Inhuman? What?!?!

4

Brainwashed, self inflicted or externaly motivated, that´s my bet.

5

Why ask why ? There’s a war on.

OPERATION IVY CYCLONE II

6

you didnt get my point.

The bombers get absolutely nothing out of this!!! This is almost as smart as punshing your kid but not telling him why you are punishing him. What the heck is the kid to do?

Also, specifically, OBL if he is controlling these attacsk, then he should be smart to know what demands are reasonable. He catnt be dumb enought to ask for an Islamic human race.

As long as we dont know thats exactly why they are doing this, we wont do anything to appease them. We surely cant catch them. Come on, they have hit Indonesia, Turkey, New York, etc. They are really spread out.

They arent killing for the heck of killing either. They are not bombing random targets.

I origianlly thought that the US was the primary target and was expecting more after 911. But not one after that. I am not convinced that the hightened secuirty has helpd; you cannot stop suicide bombers.

I am thinking more along the lines that they have a different objective. What is it? I dont know. It just involved boming Istanbul twice in 5 days.

So you idiots out there!!! What do you want???

7

Quite the contrary–these bombers get an afterlife in paradise.

You have to keep in mind that while bin Laden himself will probably never personally strap 20 lbs of C4 to his chest and run into a crowd, he’s a mastermind at brainwashing and has played the game of enlisting highly impressionable young men to play as pawns in his game.

Does he know that his strategic goals are impossible? Most likely. Does he hate the US? Yep. But, when you brainwash yourself using the thinking that “this is what Allah wants”, and you learn how to play on the weaknesses of young, dissillusioned men and women, you’ve just found a powerful army at your hand.

Hell, Hitler did the same thing. Preached and preached, and he damn near took over Europe and part of Russia.

Lately, it’s been about numbers. Before, with the 1979 (IIRC) attacks on Israeli Olympic athletes and other hijackings, terrorist groups figured out that they could gain political clout by attacking sensitive targets. Nowadays, it’s in sheer numbers of corpses. All “classical” terrorist organizations crave one thing: political recognition–giving them credibility, and maybe even an means to their goal.

Why are they doing this? Religion. As I learned, Islam doesn’t have a specific seat of power like, say the Catholic church. A lot of times, it’s regional interpretation of the Koran that dictates policy. Given the fact that the Afghanis have been invaded time after time after time, a lot of pissed off people cropped up, and while OBL is Saudi, he’s got a fundamental gripe (which I don’t know what it is at this point).

Bottom line, you’re right: they’re not hitting random targets. They’re looking for mass casualties to make them ‘credible’ political entities.

Tripler
And I agree with the feds: it’s a matter of time before it goes nuclear, biological, or chemical. :mad:

8

What they want is an end to the ‘western’ mentality that has permeated all the compass points on the globe. They want to mount a challenge to the materialistic and heathen attitudes that have taken over the traditional and spiritual ethos’ that they believe have led to a downfall in the quality of civilization. They want to restore God as the centre of our lives instead of CBN or Kentucky Fried Chicken.

While their methods might be over the top, I’m not sure that I dispute their claims.

;j

9

You can’t have a war on terrorism if you don’t have someone engaging in terrorist activities. If there are no legit participants we’ll just find people with the appropriate mental attitude to carry out the plan to keep the war effort moving.

10

I think they don’t want anything from us at all exsept to act as a target. What did the Nazis want from the jews? Simply a scapegoat which they could blame for their peoples problems. By attacking that scapegoat in the most agregious way, they maintain power over their own people (or prestege if you prefer).

11

Aha. So you’re who Christopher Hitchens was talking about:

12

They want a life better than what they’ve got now.

They blame us (rightly or wrongly) as the reason they don’t have a better life now.

In the end, they figure, “if I’m gonna go, I might as well take a few of you with me!”

13

Hmm. I think this works two ways.

14

I think (God help me) pervert is close to the truth here.

I don’t really think it’s about the United States at all except as a convenient target-of-opportunity. I think it’s about control of Saudi Arabia and the oil.

Sure, the kids blowing themselves to paradise might have religious and cultural hatred motivating them but the top dogs directing the process seem to be a little more sophisticated. By destabilizing the middle east (and by extension the Islamic world) they undermine confidence in the ruling family of Saudi Arabia. This will, it is hoped, lead to an overthrow of the royal family and the installation of a regime more in favor with Osama bin Laden and his fellow travellers…ideally with him on top.

Evidence for this is suggested by the choice of targets. By continuing to hit locations within the Islamic world the major impact of the attacks remains inside that region. If instead the goal was the damaging of the west wouldn’t targets inside the United States (which, despite the increases in security would still be easy to hit) be more likely.

Really, what would force us to respond to their wishes more: a bombing of a bank in Istanbul or an elementary school in Peoria? I know which way the smart money goes in this one.

So I think that for the upper ranks of Al Qaeda the motivation isn’t primarily religious at all. Or if it is it’s religion permeated with a healthy respect for economic control of vital natural resources.

15

Good points, Jon. We also cannot forget that attacks in Turkey, while seeming to Westerners as more Muslim on Muslim violence, may have roots in the past, a time where OBL and his pals are comfortable: there is no love lost between the former Ottomans and their former subjects in the ME. A blow against modern Turks can be in retaliation for the rape of Great-Great-Grandmother Miriam by Turkish soldiers.

16

As a first hand live witness of one of the bombs in Istanbul yesterday, I feel the need to pitch in and give my two cents’ worth of opinion. And I should warn you, this is not an opinion that would be voiced in a calm, reflective and logically analytic state…

I could try to raise quite a few arguments as to what lies beneath the actions of the guys who are blown up with the bombs they have produced with their own hands… And I might still do it later when I feel more emotionally stable…

But now I am too full of rage to think about the poor sons-of-bitches who have been used in the killing and wounding of so many innocent people!!!

Perverts like Osama Bin Laden have always existed, and when given the suitable conditions, they have always gained more power and brought more destruction to the world than had they been perceived as what they really are: Dangerous perverts that may bring no good to neither themselves nor their “allies” or “supporters”.

At this point I am especially enraged at the government of the USA - in the person of Ronald Reagan - followed by George Bush,Sr - that have helped OBL survive and prosper - in the hope of getting help from him against the USSR invasion of Afghanistan!!!

And I can’t pretend that I do not know the USA’s policy during the Iran-Iraq war, of openly supporting Saddam Hussein against the Islamic fundamentalist threat represented by Khoumeini - despite Saddam’s close relations with the Soviets! This could be acceptable had it not been proven that the arms Iran used against Iraq at that same war were also provided by the USA!!!

And that same USA has taken on the role of representing all that is good in the world, and has declared a war on the evil threats on the free and modern societies !!! As if billions of people are unable to smell the hypocrisy!!!

I am not venting against OBL and other such inhuman cocksuckers who think they are good enough to be in the same world as the billions who have been suffering from their mere presence!! I am not venting, because everybody is already doing that, and the reason behind my rage and loss of hope is not the ever presence of such scum!.. The have always been around and they dont have an antidote! Except to be ingored by the good world… the good world that will spend its resources in developing ways to wipe out the reasons for these perverts’ existence,… not declare war on thge perverts and wipe out the guys themselves! That is not the solution… More perverts are waiting to be introduced to us…

And now, after a 25-year period of struggling against heavy terrorism of a regional nature, my country - after a 5 year calm and peaceful break - has been hit by terrorism again! And its the same goddamn hypocrytical remarks all over the world again!!!

I don’t really know what to make of everything at the moment. I just feel I have no reason to feel optimistic about the future of the world!!!

I see a pointless fight, costing us the lives of thousands and thousands of innocent people… unfortunately, this fight is not between the good or the bad!

There is no good whatsoever involved in any way with this fight!!!

17

Interesting points, Watermelon, but why then are they targeting MidEastern targets instead of the US? If our hypocrisy is at the center of all of this wouldn’t a plump, soft, EASY target in the US make their point a lot better? Ramesh’s point is that none of these recent terrorists are giving a reason for what they do and we have to try to figure it out.

My message to terrorists:
IF YOU DON’T TELL US WHY YOU DO IT THEN IT ISN’T A POLITICAL ACT, IT’S JUST MURDER!!!

Which, I think, is what Ramesh meant. And it’s not that any of us WANT political discourse to involve explosions and death. There are other ways of getting things done. But you know that.

18

I think that what certain terrorists want is to call attention to their cause and suicide bombings and mass destruction are a very powerful way to get people’s (and the media’s) attention. THink about it, if Palestians (who I don’t believe are large in numbers) were protesting silently and holding sit-ins how many newspaper covers do you think such acts would generate? For a group of people like Palestinians with very little money and very little power, access to the media to plead their case and to villify their enemies is a very powerful tool. Certainly there are people that will condemn them and their methods but they will also gain some supporters who will look at the cause for their destruction and will look for some sort of rationale and justification for what they are doing.

19

At this point I’d bet a large-scale Gandhian movement on the part of the Palestinians would generate some enormous coverage. Especially if the Israeli response was violent.

20

At this point yes, but IMO that’s only b/c people are aware of the Palestinian issues now as a result of their indiscriminant violence in the past.