Nobody should pay more for a wedding than they can afford, for themselves or their children or anyone else. And there is no rule of etiquette that says you should.
Gifts are never obligatory, by definition.
The significance of the white dress is that it is the bride’s first marriage. And that’s all - she could be in labor during the ceremony with her third child and it would still be appropriate to wear white.
It is perfectly appropriate to say on the invitation “the gift of your presence is all we want”.
I’m curious, though, why marry now? I’ve lived with my gf for 15 years and we occasionally talk/joke about getting married, just for the big party it would entail.
Our oldest son (middle child) did much the same thing. Both were late 30’s and had lived together but not “churched” for about 7 years, with a 5 year old son. They wanted a wedding so the expenses were split into thirds. They paid 1/3, we paid 1/3 and her parents paid 1/3. Booze was sold at a nominal fee and that helped keep expenses down.
Pretty hard to say no when your son has 2 siblings that both got weddings (granted before living together with children). Granted both my wife and I were still working at the time but I think these parents will bear some responsibility here.
This. No issue with wanting to have a formal wedding, even after 15 years. That’s perfectly cool. Having the folks foot the wedding when you’re established economically and well into adulthood? No, not cool. (I’m not even particularly fond of the parents being expected to foot the cost of the wedding at any stage of the couple’s life, to be honest.) They should pay for it themselves. If the parents want to give a generous gift to the couple as a wedding present because they want to, great, but it’s not their responsibility to pay for the wedding.
By all means, I think they should feel free to have whatever party they want. Do the full white dress, cake, booze, etc (IF that’s what the bride and groom want - NOT only the bride’s mother). I do think that at this point, they should be well beyond needing their parents’ money, though. The whole reason for the tradition was because young couples just starting out can’t necessarily afford all the expense of a wedding/reception. That was also the reason for a bridal shower / baby shower - to start a brand new couple off with what they need to run a household or raise a baby.
When they’ve been together for 15 years, they shouldn’t need their parents’ money anymore. Nor should they be asking for gifts (if they are - I’m not assuming). Their parents might want to offer payments for some things, which is perfectly fine if it’s their choosing. It’s highly unreasonable for the couple to expect it (well, in ANY case, but especially having been living together for 15 years!).
Not really, no. There’s no state in the US in which you are treated the same as legally wed after X number of years of living together or having children together.
There are legal ramifications from such an extended co-habitation and having children together, but there are absolutely no states where you would be legally considered the same as married based solely on length of co-habitation or existence of children. And there are definitely legal differences between being married or not.
Even states with common law marriage require that both parties consider themselves married and hold themselves out publicly as married. There is no place in the US where you can wake up one morning and suddenly find you’re considered legally married without your active consent and participation.
ETA: Or perhaps your parents’ consent in the case of underage kids, which…ew.
SBS, You have got to send her this thread. You can print it out, copy/paste it into an email, or just send the link … you can decide if you want to cc “the gang”. I would, it’d be sure to get a good discussion going at your next lunch!
Then, let us know how it went. Her first reaction might be negative, but I think once she sees how many of us support the “couple should pitch in” options, she’ll be relieved.
The thread title buries the lede; to me, the question here isn’t the appropriateness of a big white wedding for an established couple, but the appropriateness of asking one’s parents to pay for one’s wedding.
If you’re old enough to get married, you’re old enough plan a wedding that’s within your means, even if it’s a simple courthouse ceremony. That should be the starting line for these conversations. That said, on a broader level, when newly-fledged adult children are staring down the enormous expenses of young adulthood–college/grad school, furnishing that first apartment/buying that first house, getting married/ going on a honeymoon, having kids of their own-- parents who have the means to help them should strongly consider doing so. They’re your children, even if they’re not children; presumably you love them and want the best for them in life; presumably you’re leaving them whatever is left over of your money after you die anyway. Why not help them out when they’re starting out, when your contribution means more than it will when they’re (hopefully) more established in their careers?
But here, the parents don’t have the means to help, and the children don’t seem to need it. It’s not about how long they couple have been together. If the parents were rich and the kids were poor, and the parents withheld financial support they otherwise would have given because the parents were annoyed that the couple didn’t marry back when they could still plausibly pretend to be virgins, I’d judge those parents. Similarly, if the parents were the ones pushing for the big, traditional wedding (which the children were amenable to but wouldn’t otherwise have chosen for themselves), I’d think it appropriate that the parents at least help finance it. But it still isn’t an entitlement, and anyone planning to get married should assume the responsibility is theirs alone unless the parents offer to help.
And for the record, I don’t care for big white churchy weddings; I didn’t have one, and I would only go to one for someone I really cared about. But my distaste for those weddings is dwarfed by my distaste for those who cluck about the inappropriateness of having one when you’ve already been living in sin.
Meh, it’s basically just another a conflict of traditional expectations and modern society.
My aunt and uncle aren’t exactly wealthy, but my uncle literally stopped off at the bank on the way back from the hospital when my aunt gave birth to their first baby, a girl, to open a savings account for her wedding. Not for her education or general wellbeing; in his mind, getting her ‘properly married’ was his main duty as a father. He would have been horrified if she hadn’t been able to have the big over-the-top traditional wedding, regardless of when she’d asked for it.
She’d also been primed to consider that a right since she was a kid- I vividly remember her describing her future wedding to me as a young teen, in detail. This included: cake design and flavour; floofy white dress style; decoration colour theme; venue requirements.
It did not include a groom…
She was, IIRC 31 when she married, but honestly, in that family dynamic, I don’t think she would have been wrong to be upset if her Dad did refuse to pay after a lifetime of being primed to consider that his responsibility. In the event, the groom’s parents were a bit wealthier and they did pay for some, as did the couple, but - at her Dad’s insistence, her parents paid for most.
I had a medium-sized wedding, but with lots of cut corners (and no white dress-- it was blue and cost $24.50). The only reason we didn’t just go to the courthouse, frankly, was that my mother wanted a wedding. I was 34, and I wasn’t that crazy about the idea, but my mother said she’d pay for it. So I acquiesced. She acted as hostess, and I got to enjoy myself. Frankly, so did she. She had the time of her life, and she could afford it.
If it had been up to me to pay for it, I wouldn’t have done it.
However, as I’d (and DH as well) been living on my own since my junior year of college, no shower. It was pretty easy not to have one. Two friends offered to throw them, and I declined. I didn’t have a registry. I asked the same two friends who had offered to throw showers to start a word-of-mouth campaign that we didn’t want gifts. About 1/3 of the guests gave them anyway, but we got a lot of checks. My intent in requesting “no gifts” was not to get money. It was to keep crap out of my already over-full house. But, well, money doesn’t take up space.
I had every single thank you note written and mailed by the time we were back from the honeymoon.
Yes, I took notecards and a pen on the honeymoon.
Anyway, I’m just saying that we don’t have first-hand information here. It’s at least possible this is coming from the mother. Maybe mother has been campaigning for them to make it legal for years, and finally wore them down, and everything, the shower and white dress, and coming from mom.
Daughter may have said “We’re not paying for a wedding,” so mother said “Fine, I’ll pay.”
As Peg Bracken put it in her etiquette manuel “I Try to Behave Myself”: If white wedding dresses meant what they are supposed to mean, how could they be selling them today?
I have no problem with anybody having the big white poufy monstrosity wedding with hideous bridesmaids dresses and the whole 9 yards, but if you are a well established couple that has been together for 14 years, has 3 kids and a house, a pair of jobs and probably disposable income, pay for it yourself.
I have no problem with her mom and dad perhaps paying for the church rental and the fees, but the 5 000 dress, 10 000 in flowers and the 40 000 wedding party … oh Honey, NO. The parents have their retirement and health to fund.
I told them, “Ain’t gonna do it.”